Councilman Price took a lot of heat about his decision to table the ordinance concerning the appropriation of funds to purchase new police cars.
I must agree with him on this one. If some of the police officers did not drive their squad cars out of New Albany the cars might last longer. I understand the reasoning about having the cars in plain sight at all times and having their equipment handy in case of emergency. But if an officer lives outside of New Albany, much less Floyd County, it makes no sense to take the car home since the officer will be out of his/her jurisdiction.
I was told by a retired fire official that several years ago it was mandatory that an applicant be a New Albany resident to be hired by the New Albany Police or Fire Department. While that policy might not be practical today, it would make sense for this rule to apply to take home cars.
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64 comments:
I can remember when you could not be a police officer, without living in New Albany.
Four weeks ago I asked and "Citizens for Accountability" still has not yet answered.
- Is "CFA" okay with a McCartin voting for her brother's gigs?
- Is "CFA" okay with not following constitutionally required redistricting?
If the answer to either question is "yes," then why is "CFA" selective in its requests for accountability?
FOS has this today:
Freedom Of Speech would like for our readers to notice the law states: "act or omission constitutes gross negligence." We've already had 1 year of gross negligence can we afford 3 more?
Again, an allegation with no corroborating proof. An accusation without evidence. Is this slander? Is this spite? We don't know the author's true hidden agenda.
FOS, what act or omission has met the statutes definition of “gross negligence”?
Since no particular act or omission is mentioned, I will assume the author knows of none.
I agree with my councilman, NO policy, NO police cars.
Shop locally, too.
Here's my problem with what Mr. Price did. He knew that this was coming up. Why did he wait until the meeting to ask for the figures he wanted? It's just grandstanding and delaying tactics. He seems like a nice guy and probably is, but as a councilman he is in way over his head.
I doubt that the take home car program is adding a significant percentage of miles but I would not be adverse to a city restriction on take home cars.
Shirley,
This is DANGEROUS, plain and simple.
I ask you, and I ask ALL of the hordes of anonymous posters who flock to this site, (all one of you with your 5 personalities)
Have you EVER in your life had to respond to an emergency in a pool car that has over 200,000 miles on it?
Weakened suspension, faulty electronics, slipping transmissions, engines whos compression is failing... I did for years here in NA.
And basically, not meaning to sound like and ass, but unless you have had to have a persons life or lives depending on you to make it to a scene of crime in progress, or an auto accident with injuries, and the car you are driving is a worn out, barely running, unsafe, high mileage P.O.S., I dont think anyone, including Price, is in a position to deny safe, reliable, newer patrol cars because of money.
A handful of crown vics will cost a whole hell of a lot less than a multi-million dollar lawsuit when something goes wrong, or God forbid we bury one of our officers, or an innocent family when a car goes wrong and it causes an accident.
As far back as I can remember (going back to the early 70's) we have had ooficers who did not live in the city limits.
and finally, no one was bitching about taking cars out of city when our officers helped County Officers Denzinger and White, or helped search for the suspect that shot two Jeff police officers.
No one was bitching when officers from other districts came to New Albany to assist us when we needed it.
No one was complaining when every single New Albany Police Officer, and reserve Officer was able to show up for the man hunt and rescue of Officer Russ Witt when he was shot multiple times by a .45 caliber following the murder at Tommy Landcasters.
But then again, none of the "fiscally conservatives" around here raised too much of stink when Sgt. Drake and Sgt. Helm were involved in a drawn out shoot out at the old state street store before there were take home cars, and they had no radio, no extra ammo, no shotgun, no bullet proof vests, and no back up.
People tend forget really easily when we talk about money that the lives and safety of not only our OFFICERS, but all of us as well is at stake here.
So until Price gets his butt out from behind his rental properties and his out of tune guitar, and get on the street as a police officer, and anyone else who feels safe reliable patrol cars are a waste of money, hopefully it wont be YOU who is danger when the officer responding to your emergency car breaks down.
Also as a side note, a sworn police officer in ANY city or county in the state of Indiana, is a SWORN POLICE OFFICER anywhere in the state of Indiana, the powers and responsibility of an officer does not end at a geographical boundery with in the state....
Price is a close friend with some Main Street residents who have been arrested a few times lately for dealing drugs. Maybe this explains his anti-police stance. He wants his friends’ business to be uninterrupted.
Price needs to prove that he supports the police more than the drug dealers.
I’m still waiting for the single thread of evidence that Garry has committed gross negligence.
Christopher D. here you go again. Playing the safety card. I guess police officers sleeping or having sex down by the K&I bridge might make us a little less safe. right? Back in the 70's they did NIT have take home cars. As Councilman Zurschmiede told me in another year or two we are not going to have money for nothing but Police and fire. Why should tax payers keep paying for police officers to run the wheels off these cars. Everyone wants to compare New Albany to Louisville, Jeffersonville, and Madison and such. but it's crap. Why don't our police officers want a take home policy? Why don't they pay us back for their shopping trips to Krogers, walmart, doing their banking, not counting Christmas shopping and driving in Louisville and such. Why don't they keep a log as the law requires? If you work for the city, by God you ought to live in the city. Why didn't Harle retire as stated before England came in? Why you ask, he can sit in his police care and make a lot of salary passing tickets out. Why are they giving older cars for part-time police officer like the one who lives on Cherry Street, while he hides it behind his garage, so no one see's it. Why are they to pick up their kids and drop them off at school, take them to practice or whatever. You talk about lawsuits. How many do we have now? Several from what I've been told.
Cry us a river, look at their W-2's and see how much they make. They are over paided compared to cities of our size.
As far as, cars being in bad shape, what is the union doing for our police officers? Have you ever heasrd of OSHA? Sell it to someone else, because it's a bunch of crap your trying to sell.
FYI-they know what they are getting into when they become police officers. And besides most of them are to fat to run after a criminal, let alone ride those bikes they have on the back of their cars.
"nuff said."
Concern Taxpayer
here you go again. Playing the safety card.
So he/she/it not only hates educated people but also police officers and those they protect.
They are over paided compared to cities of our size.
What does the size of the city have to do with the salary of the police officer? City size affects the number of police officers, it affects the total police budget, but it does not affect the average salary of each officer.
I think what he/she/it is saying is that since one or two police officers once or twice had sex in a squad car sometime in the last decade, then that means that no police officers deserves quality equipment.
That affects us all. Talk about collective punishment.
Dear “Concerned Taxpayer,” we all pay taxes and we all are concerned about our City so get off the ego trip that you actually paid a tax at some time.
Concerned "uninformed" taxpayer,
I tell you what, we will start off by me offering to personally pay you back the amount of taxes YOU personally have paid out of YOUR pocket for the police department in the last year. Choose wisely how you spend your $3
Secondly, point out where I said that we had take home cars in the 70's, can you do that, no you cant, because I didnt.
(We implemented take home cars AFTER the state street store shoot out involving Sgt. Drake and Sgt. Helm, I remember, I remember the day, the hour, the minute all most, Helm was my neighbor, his sons were my best friends, and Drake was my dad.
I, too, drove the ragged out line car for nearly 10 years, as a "part time" officer I logged nearly 30 hours per week on the street and at "details", again for nearly a decade, and all it cost you was the cost of gas, I paid for EVERYTHING ELSE out of my pocket, FOR YOU.
Thirdly, Captain Merl Harl makes a good salary, yes, but Captain Harl has also been on the department for several decades, and has achieved that salary through merit raises, and testing and being accepted by the police merit board for climbing through the ranks from patrolman, to one of our highest permenantly ranked officers on the department, experience costs.
Thirdly, you can shovel your BS about "how cops hsould know what they are getting into", Go tell that to Tara Denzinger, (you cant tell her husband)
As far as officers using cars for running to the store, etc. THATS WHAT THEY ARE THERE FOR. If you would take the time to read the follow up posting I made, a sworn police officer in the state of indiana is a sworn police officer, anywhere he goes in the state, 24/7/365 and has a responsibility to act when he witnesses a crime. A non-uniformed officer can act in a marked car, whether he/she is on "duty' or not.
The only thing that seconds your ignorance of what you are talking about is you obvious blind hatred for police officers, and I happen to have facts on my side on this issue, and all you have is your regurgitated verbal bile of your own UNPROVEN opinions.
(and I at least am not such a coward that I put my name to what i am saying)
Welcome back, Concern Taxpayer.
Bullsh*t Drake. When you become a police officer, you know the hours and what is expected. You were a cop because you choose to be one. Part-time or full time. About 83% of our general fund goes to police and fire. James Garner gave several unecessary promotions and you know it. Even Ron Torran stated he was part of the problem with his fireman getting promotions. So you think they deserve to have take home cars? You think they are above the law to not keep logs? What about all the police who were over paid in the 2007 audit. You wonder why our city is broke and tax payers are mad as hell. You da*n police officers think taxpayers are suppose to kiss your a** because you carry a gun, well I'm here to tell you when everybody moves out of New Albany start wondering why, and the NAPD are pricing yourselves out of a job like Price said.
All you and other cops want is everything. New cars, new computers, free gas, you pay no insurance, maintance and can do what ever you want. We pay for officers to work a second job. Why should we? Maybe if more than half our police didn't live outside the city, they'd not be driving the h*ll out of our cars. You seem to forget you (if a police officer or past police officer) work for me, and every tax payer, not the other way around.
Concerned Taxpayer
As far as the $3.00 you say I pay on taxes so police service can be given to me. Well Mr. Drake, give it to Chief Crabtree on the next purchase for a new police car. Who you trying to sell this bulls*it to, you or me?
Concern Taxpayer
Concerned Wackjob,
"You da*n police officers think taxpayers are suppose to kiss your a** because you carry a gun"
#1. I did my service to my community for nearly ten years, and I have not been a member of the Auxiliary for nearly 5 years now.
#2. I think people like you should kiss my "a**" on general principles, no need to involve a gun.
#3. While you are busy dropping all these names, why dont you take a second and drop your own name for once, until you post your name, your opinions are the only bullsh!t on here.
If you can not stand behind what you are saying, then what you are saying is completely worthless.
you whine because 86% of our budget is spend on public safety (yeah such a waste of money), but you have yet to post the monetary expenditures of other comparable cities for a parallel analysis.
Computers in patrol cars allow officers to remain on the streets to file reports, check warrants, run vehicle registrations, if they were "on station" to do this, you would be whining that we are paying them for "sitting at the office", which way do you want it?
Also, you bet your ignorant a** that the police and fire officers work for you, and you bet your ignorant a** you would be the first to call them when you reckless mouth got you into trouble and demand they come to bail you out of the trouble you got yourself into, and they would do it for you despite the hatred and contempt you show for them. Can you say the same?
Oh, and do I still work for you? Hell no, but I do spend up your precious tax money caring for those nasty little poor people who lost their jobs and are sick and are costing you more money. And you know what, I dont have to answer to you about how I spend it and on whom. I bet that gets your panties on a wad, huh?
But as I have grown bored with proving my point with FACTS verses your bloated, biased opinions, and since you are not adult enough to debate the topic at hand in manner suitable to advocate change (a good start would be posting your name) I will treat your unclaimed, unproven, seditious statements for what they are, empty worthless rable not worth responding to.
I am with concern taxpayer, and Council member Price on this issue.
The city ought to take away take-home cars from police officers living outside of New Albany, because it would save a lot of moneu. Seems pretty simple, right? I mean, I use my own car to get to and from work. You probably use your car to get to and from work.
I submit for milege and claim it on my taxes, why shouldn't they keep a log, like I do.
Give up the cars and show that you're mindful of the fact that the city needs to be as frugel, for once.
It's absurd that anyone in this town needs a publiclty paid for vehicle to get to and from work. There are people in all walks of life and careers who are on call 24x7 and they don't need take home cars for their places of employment.
The Mayor and administration should lead by example and suspend their use of take home cars...orperhaps the Mayor might see fit to suspend the 24x7 protection of his house by on-duty police officers as well.
Let's try to keep things in perspective. We're talking about a city of about 36,000 people with about 60 police officers. Furthermore, even holding the line on overtime and pay for a couple years, the NAPD are still one of the top paid in the state and the beginning salary is still well abovethe salary for the demographics.
These police officers need to realize that this city does not have unlimited resources. The city needs to cap spending while needing to do more with less. Our population is shrinking and so is the tax revenue.
Crabtree and England has to answer directly to us raxpayers. I wonder of all the cops could live up to the same scrunity.
How many police cars could Deputy Mayor's salary pay for?
I'm with you on this issue concern taxpayer.
I can drive around New Albany for a week and not blow a tank of gas.
But when that police car is parked in a driveway in Clarksville, Greenville, Cordyon and beyond, and gas is over $2 bucks a gallon, f**k the Union Contract.
Tell them the free ride is over.
If the city wants my car back, that's fine with me. Then we can go back to staggered shifts, squad meetrings (never should have discontinued them), deployment from the station, standing in line for car keys to be issued, and loading/unloading equipment every shift on city time. I personally never use the car off-duty anyway,because my off-duty time is my own; I agree the gas cost is going up these days, but any cop with a brain in his head is not going to pay for the privilege of being considered "on duty," which is essentially what he is while in the police car. No thanks...you can have the car back.
Anon 8:36,
I keep reading and hearing about our police being either the highest or one of the highest paid. I've yet to see figures to that particular point.
Would you please post those figures? Even at Council meetings, a member will state that the police are the highest paid and a police officer will answer back to the negative. But there are never any figures--from either side.
Your mistaken, in the 70's they had NO take home cars. My family member was on the NAPD. They drove their own cars or we dropped them off in the Police Parking lot where the County Jail currently is.
Get rid of the clown running the Police Department and Mayor England. Citzens are sick of hear the now famous Baylor quote, well in Louisville they do it this way. This is not Louisville or Europe. The feds and the FBI needs to come in and put them all in jail.
I'm with taxpayer. Park them cars.
YES! park them cars!
Cut the pigs salaries!
Take away their guns!
get rid of narc cops!
Let the meth labs take over the rest of the city!
Continue to have some of the highest property crimes per capita in the country!
Let the 812 gang spread their vandalism, thefts, and assualts to the rest of the city!
bunch of morons.
DLB
Dear Chris,
If you ever want to sit down and talk about the facts, give me a call at 812-941-9032. We all have to live on a budget and we have to have policy to be productive in life. The reason our country is in the shape were in right now, is the lack of accountability to it's citizens. I will meet you at your house or mine. Or you can meet me on the third floor 1 hour before the next council meeting to a public forum and we will debate policy.
Councilman Steve Price
Iamhoosier since bluegill and your progressive friends over at NAC mentioned that Highwayman is so great at researching, we suggest you all do your homewoek like the rest of us do. It's not hard when you have the facts, to debate the likes of you.
CM Price,
I appreciate your response and offer, and I truly mean that.
However, to me this is not a debatable issue.
I have three family members on local departments, a lot of my friends are on the NAPD, several of which started out in the Auxiliary with me.
I know, and they all know what its like trying to operate with outdated worn out duty gear, it is unsafe, and only serves to give the advantage to those who would break the laws.
Our officers are understaffed and out gunned, and with a criminal justice system that sides with the criminals, and with recidivists being able to do as they please with out prosecution, training, and experience is the only ascendancy our officers have.
As an elected official, your primary role should be undertaking what ever steps are needed to ensure the safety, welfare, and general well-being of the community at large. Taking steps to limit the resources of the public safety divisions with in government is disadvantageous in that mission.
You have your reasons for feeling the way that you do, and for voting in the manner in which you did, and I respect that. But there are times when our elected officials must look at the common good for the entire community, and the totality of the circumstance for which the issues that may not be popular among fiscal conservatives is brought forth.
Yes, we CAN save some money, but at what cost?
Sometimes the price for nonconformance is a higher cost that the community is willing to bear.
But make no mistake, I truly do appreciate your offer to talk. In the end you are the elected official, and I am just a citizen excerising my First Amendment.
Christopher Drake
That my councilman (Price), he'a willing and offers to debate anyone in an open forum.
Anon 10:21,
That's what I figured.
A coward and a liar.
Anon 9:27
This is the first time I have received anything like this in all the years I have been involved in issues by CM Price.
How do we know that was a response from Steve Price.
truly,
Barack H. Obama
2:48 Why don't you call him up and ask him. I did, and he wrote it. Here's his number, call him Mr. Obama: 941-9032
Iamhoosier this information will be coming out in a County Council meeting, so get your jocks or boxers out of a wad and stop calling everyone a liar here. What part of the word; research do you not understand. Good grief.
So what's the harm in posting it here? It's going to be public anyway, right?
I mean, good grief.
I'll stand by my words, especially if FOS has anything to do with it. He, she, they have already proven to be liars, thieves and cowards.
I’m absolutely amazed. I am absolutely amazed that the anonymous poster would still try to make people believe that there is a professor writing at FOS. I’m not sure if it’s pathology or stupidity. Give us a break. Repeatedly referring the FOS’s “reporting” robs your arguments are any remaining ounce of credibility.
Still waiting for an answer:
- Do those who repeatedly cite the Constitution’s guaranty of the Freedom of Speech also believe the Constitution stands for one man, one vote? And if so, why does that not apply to redistricting in New Albany?
- Is there an ounce of evidence that Garry has committed gross negligence?
- What evidence is there that “England is a crook”?
Shirley,
Until I read a responsible, coherent response to these questions, I will no longer participate in the discussions on this blog.
You have argued that people must have the anonymity to speak freely. Anyone who wants to anonymously “blow a whistle” can do so by creating their own blog. Whistle blowers have good alternatives to posting on this site.
While there can be a benefit in providing a forum where whistle-blowers can share their evidence, I have yet to see that happen on this blog. Instead, the privilege of anonymity has been grossly abused. This site has become a mockery. One or two individuals have repeatedly abused your hospitality by making repeated and apparently baseless attacked on many people in our community from the Mayor, the Controller, Council members and the police department. When repeated asked for evidence of their claims, we only see more personal attacks.
If the posters once would provide evidence of their claims, I would view this site in a different light. However, since I have come to believe that the anonymous posters here are far more interested in character assassination than in better local government, I suspect I will not be reading this blog much longer.
I wish it were not that way.
Steve,
Enjoyed the jam session last night. If you want to tour with us some time, send me an email. Thanks
Johnny Cash,
maninblack@heaven.org
Crimes per 100,000 People:
Murder: 2.7
Forcible Rape: 13.51
Robbery: 197.2
Aggravated Assault: 253.9
Burglary: 1104.9 (National: 813.2)
Larceny Theft: 4660.1 (Nat.:2601.7)
Vehicle Theft: 537.6 (Nat. 501.5)
Number of violent/sex offenders registered in N.A.: 106
City-data.com crime index (higher means more crime, (U.S. average = 320.9) New Albany: 430.0
* Decrease in over 130 points has been shown since 2001
New Albany has an average of 1.7 officers per 1000 people, the national average is 3 per 1000
(based on this figure from the USDJ New Albany SHOULD have 130 sworn officers)
Want to compare New Albany to other similar sized cities? Do it here:
http://www.areaconnect.com/crime/compare.htm
Find the other data here:
http://www.city-data.com/city/New-Albany-Indiana.html
Anyone in your government who elects to withhold any assets to your public safety operations is at best an example of the failure of the democratic process, and at worst is creating a liability that YOU tax payers will end up paying much more for in the long run.
-DLB
May 11, 2009 5:53pm
1. You state: You have argued that people must have the anonymity to speak freely.
2. I have yet to see that happen on this blog.
3. Instead the privilege of anonymity has been grossly abused.
4. This site has become a mockery. One or two individuals have repeatedly abused your hospitality by making repeated and apparently baseless attacked on many people in our community from the Mayor, the Controller, Council members and the police department.
5. When repeated asked for evidence of their claims, we only see more personal attacks.
6. However,since I have come to beieve that the anonymous posters here are far more interested in character assassination than in better local government. I suspect I will not be reading this blog much longer.
Answers:
1. First,I read Anonymous said...
Is that the pot calling the kettle black?
2. You attack anonymous posting, and post anonymous. What are you smoking...dude?
3. Is your name Shirley Baird? "NOT"
4. Correct me, but isn't this blog's called "The Voice of the People not NAC?
5. Character Assassination; you've got to be kidding,right? [as they say:if the shoe fits wear it.
Believe me, I doubt Shirley will not care if you go. It's her blog. You have NO bases for you opinions, and opinions is what you are flapping your gums about.
Would you like to try this again?
Concern Taxpayer
Everyone,
I am sorry that people are unhappy with my allowing anonymous postings. But everyone needs a place to vent and so I will allow it.
I know there have been remarks made about members of the Administration and certain council members but I don't think anyone's character or reputation has actually been damaged.
People have posted "ugly" remarks about these same people on other blogs also.
I don't like some of the comments posted on here but when I opened this blog I knew in advance it would not always be "sweetness and light".
So, disagree if you want just try to keep the name calling out of it please.
thanks,
Shirley
I think it's time to pop a bud light on that one. Great job Concern taxpayer.
Excuse me but, can I just add one thing?
One or two of you, continue to attack Freedom Of Speech, and Citizens for Accountability.
Myself, I read FOS faithfully. CFA did stop the LOIT Tax, just ask the County Councilmembers and saved workers from paying an additional tax.
But hey, at least their not up the Mayor's ass either.
I think it's time to pop a bud light on that one. Great job Concern taxpayer.
Excuse me but, can I just add one thing?
One or two of you, continue to attack Freedom Of Speech, and Citizens for Accountability.
Myself, I read FOS faithfully. CFA did stop the LOIT Tax, just ask the County Councilmembers and saved workers from paying an additional tax.
But hey, at least their not up the Mayor's ass either.
I’ll take that as a “yes,” you do think we’re stupid enough to believe that.
By the way, I’ve still not seen any proof that England is a “crook,” of Garry has committed “gross negligence.” Those are the important issues and you have no addressed them. I presume you have not provided the proof because there is none.
From FOS:
Saturday, May 09, 2009
UPDATE: YOUR INVITED Join us for the 2009 Indiana Jefferson-Jackson Day Dinner with President Bill Clinton!
I think a real college professor would know it’s:
UPDATE: YOU’RE INVITED
That’s as in “you are” invited,” not your personal invitation.
I remain simply amazed that anyone would think that we would be so gullible as to believe a college professor is writing this dribble.
YOU MUST BE A REPUBLICAN. SO YOU WEREN'T INVITED EITHER. TO BAD, SO SAD
OR: “TOO BAD, SO SAD,”....Professor.
9:02,9:07,12:21,5:57,7:01,9:57,5:39 pm, why don't you finish your homework, the school bus is coming soon.
9:02,9:07,12:21,5:57,7:01,9:57,5:39 pm, why don't you finish your homework, the school bus is coming soon.
The problem is not your grammar. It’s that your rational on local government issues is equally as uninformed and equally obviously so.
i wish the little people had bigger ideas.
12:02 Jealousy is a disease.
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