As a member of St. Mary's I must speak out. There has been a lot of outrage about the removal of the Bradford Pear trees along Eighth St. The "protesters" seem to be mainly non members.
First of all, the trees were not the right type to be planted in such a small area. They became too tall for the space and the falling leaves were lying on top of the church roof, causing damage. The trees on Spring St. were growing through the power lines. Additionally, the roots were encroaching on the water and sewer lines under the sidewalk and also damaging the sidewalk itself.
Yes, the steeple was taken down without the removal of any trees but it was cut into sections before removal and done under emergency circumstances. Duke energy would not allow the repaired steeple to be put into place from the Spring St. side because the crane would have to cross the power lines. The only solution would have been to shut down the entire grid during the process.
The only solution was to drive the crane over the sidewalk on Eighth St. and onto the side lawn. The trees were removed by St. Mary's and new more suitable trees will be planted in their place, also paid for by St. Mary's. The city was not charged a dime.
Irvin Stumler explained all of this at the city council meeting on May 20. He also attended every Mass over the weekend of May 22 and 23 and explained all of this to the church members. I talked to our church secretary after the 11:30 service and she said the calls made on the day of the tree removal were positive. Everyone understood the need for this and were glad that more suitable trees would be planted in replacement.
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69 comments:
Shirley,
In the interest of fairness, most of the "supporters" seem to be members of St. Mary's.
There was a cost to New Albany. Mature trees. Granted, Bradford pear trees were not a good choice to start with but this destruction was done with startling speed and little to no public notice. Perhaps it would have been better if Mr. Stumler had presented the case before cutting instead of after.
Mark
"The groves were God's first temples."
- William Cullen Bryant
"The tree which moves some to tears of joy is in the eyes of others only a
green thing that stands in the way." - William Blake 1799
Shirley,
I am a Catholic, and I have deep family roots at St. Mary's. But far and above any member of any man made building to worship, I am closer to God through his miracles that are given to us in the form of the natural world.
The bells will ring in the steeple again (or at least a recording of such), but no one will ever be able to enjoy the cool shade of those trees. No birds who returned to those trees year after year to nest and raise their young will be able to land on the branches and feel safe. How many tons of fresh, clean oxygen did those trees create over their life times?
This is more than about trees, this is about our ability as a species to totally disregard the sanctity of life (unless it is that of our species, or a comfort of our species).
There is NO steeple, no cathedral in the word that is as beautiful, beneficial, or miraculous as a single tree is. And there is no viable excuse that is acceptable to justify the wasteful destruction of a single living thing in order to place a steeple on top of that building, period.
So, yeah, a pretty copper steeple will be placed on the top of St. Mary's, but in the process natural living things were destroyed. There could have been ways to rebuild the steeple with out killing those trees. So yes, I am disgusted by the waste and destruction, yes I protested the killing of that beautiful mature, life harboring fir tree, as well as the others, and yes I am a catholic, and have membership ties to St. Mary's church. But ALL OF us have a membership to the air those trees cleaned, the shade they cast on the sidewalks, the songs sung by the birds who called those trees home, the sweet smell of the blossoms from the pair trees in the spring....
It is my humble opinion that in its interests to satisfy its wants for a "pretty" church, the parish has forgotten that the trees were Gods first temples.
Christopher,
The city did not choose the right type of tree to plant in the first place and they had to be removed eventually.
I love trees too but these trees were causing problems. They will be replaced with trees that do not do any harm.
Shirley, your noggin is thicker than the trunks of those trees.
So when's Price going to debate?
On this I may be arguementative...
What constitutes "damage"? is damage only considered that which effects humans? Is damage only measured by the inconvenience of having to clean felled leaved from a roof?
Or can damage be measured by the willful destruction of a living organism, that a whole host of species came to depend upon over decades, only to satisfy our species selfish, short sighted needs?
I can remember standing under taht fir tree having conversations about the natural world and its beauty with Father Conrad, the Arch Abbott of the Benedictine Order of St. Meinrid (my great uncle), I remember visiting with Father Hugh Smith from Blue Cloud Abbey in South Dakota when he would come down to visit (my cousin)
Its just a very sad sad occurrence any way it is sliced.
FOS translator:
"England is corrupt"
means
"I don't like England's decision."
----
"There should be an investigation"
means
"Sure, it's supposed to be a Democratic Republic, but let's use a process other than the ballot box to get what we want."
----
"Communist"
means
"You disagree with me"
----
"Socialist"
means
"You disagree with me"
----
"Jihadist"
means
"You disagree with me"
----
"Free patio"
means
"City investment that does not benefit me directly"
----
"Lower my taxes"
means
"Stop making any investments that do not benefit me directly"
----
"Cut waste by the school board"
means
"I don't have children and I don't care about yours."
----
"Progressive policy"
means
"something I've not taken the time to understand."
39 days and still no arrest
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2175 days and still no professor, no CFA staff, no organization Denhart is president of, no FBI investigation.
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18,314 days and still no clue by Price.
72 days and still no apology, retraction, or correction by FOS for posting her Hitler loving post "strangers on my flight."
What the bottom line here, I see is this;
a. Mr. Baylor has a dead tree in front of his home and if anyone else had to pay to have a tree removed you are looking at $400-$500 or more and he feels the city should do it for FREE. Just like he thinks he should receive new sidewalks and a patio befire anyone else and now HIS alley pot holes are fixed over everyone elses. What more do you want Mr. Baylor? You now wonder why people hate you!?! Save your speech on how much you do for New Albany, because it's all BS.
b. When did the progressives become tree huggers? When in fact in the Linden Meadows so called subdivision(ghetto) the city removed a whole line of GOOD -healthy trees and you all never "bitched" or said one word about that. There was NO reason for those line of GOOD healthy trees to be removed and redevlopment "PROMISED" they would not be removed to start with and after the neighbor's threw a fit they also promised to REPLACE and still has not been done to this day.
So please explain why you people have your noses outta joint?
St. Mary's tree roots were cracking sidwalks and pipes. Those members paid for what needed to be done and there was NO sweat off of anyone of your wallet or property.
I'm not a Catholic is this the real issue? Is the real issue or that you all were not informed?
Now you know how the rest of us feel. They have as much right to remove trees shrubs or anything else without you're alls approval.
Mrs. Streckfus, you have cracked sidewalks and tree roots cracking sewer and stormwater pipes right in your block. Should that be chopped down? I think so!
I think many of you owe Shirley an apology, as they say "don't shoot the messanger" and Shirley was only giving the facts.
Shame on all of you so called tree huggers, don't think St. Mary's folks aren't reading these blogs because they are.
And if you truly cared about tree's why only select some trees on certain streets and not all trees in New Albany.
I say screw you all, it's St. Mary's trees and it's none of your damn business what they do or have to do to get the steeple back on.
FOS translator:
"tree hugger"
means
"someone who gives a damn whether or not the city looks like crap."
I say screw you all, it's St. Mary's trees and it's none of your damn business what they do or have to do to get the steeple back on.
Let's not forget.
St. Mary's didn't pay to have the trees removed.
St. Mary's didn't pay for their new steeple either.
The community as a whole is helping them with both. The community has a stake in how the community looks.
Mr. Baylor has a dead tree in front of his home and if anyone else had to pay to have a tree removed you are looking at $400-$500 or more and he feels the city should do it for FREE.
Mr Baylor was making a point, not literally asking for a free tree removal. Since you missed the point, his point was this: If St. Mary's gets free tree removal, why shouldn't everyone else?
When did the progressives become tree huggers? When in fact in the Linden Meadows so called subdivision(ghetto) the city removed a whole line of GOOD -healthy trees and you all never "bitched" . ... So please explain why you people have your noses outta joint?
Vicky, you fail to see the difference once again. It's not about trees anywhere and everywhere. It's about the appearance of our town and our neighborhoods.
Shame on all of you so called tree huggers, don't think St. Mary's folks aren't reading these blogs because they are.
St. Mary's has an investment in this community too. I hope they are reading. I'm sure the good folks at St. Mary's want to see their church in a health, attractive neighborhood. I'm sure they want to see that their church's neighbors work together to make sure trees are only cut down when needed, as here, and not randomly and senselessly. It's a good discussion to have and I hope St. Mary's is part of it.
And if you truly cared about tree's why only select some trees on certain streets and not all trees in New Albany.
No one has said trees elsewhere in the city aren't important. These trees just happen to be in a very visible spot and attracted notice.
Now you know how the rest of us feel. They have as much right to remove trees shrubs or anything else without you're alls approval.
There's supposed to be a Tree Board who would approve this. No one on NAC is asking for dictatorial powers over trees. They're asking that the City enforce its own laws for a change instead of just winging it all the time in a haphazard way that benefits no one.
-A Progressive
I say screw you all
Your hateful attitude and willful ignorance is deplorable.
St Marys DID pay for the tree removal. And as far as the steeple, we received a grant for $100,000 from Horseshoe but that only covered half. The church has do come up with the rest, with the help of the Archdiocese.
The city did not contribute in any way.
Guess I am labeled as a progressive again, and when did I become a tree hugger? let me think, maybe it was somewhere along the Appalachian trail, could have been some of that dehydrated food that was poisoned with mind control drugs.
Or it simply could be that the excuses offered up for the destruction of the natural world because it makes the "human" world easier to deal with has never set well with me.
It has nothing to do with Catholicism (though one of the fundamental dogma's of the holy See is that all life is sacred.. period.) and has everything to do with the fact that the earth is not ours to just do with as we please as a matter of convenience.
Simply put, in this case their karma has run over their dogma.
By the way, I LOVE, absolutely LOVE the fact that the anonymous poster defends the "rights" of the good church going people and proclaims a hearty "screw you" in the defense!
In regards to having to worry about members of St. Mary's reading what I wrote, EXCELLENT, it will give many of us something to talk about during our next family gathering...
Shirley, who at St. Mary's determined what trees would replace the Bradford Pear that were removed? Did St. Mary's hire a professional garden/tree person?
"And if you truly cared about tree's why only select some trees on certain streets and not all trees in New Albany."
If there are trees being cut down indiscriminately in front of Professor Erik's house or in front of a marathon running CFA staffer's house, have one of them call Roger. I'm sure he'll blog about those trees too. But something tells me the staffers and the professor won't call.
Teehee.
The pipes won’t stop being cracked because the trees were cut down. Once the roots rot, the holes in the pipes made by the roots will leak. The voids created under the sidewalks from the rotting roots will have to be filled with something and dirt does not settle from below. These are just after the fact excuses and nothing more.
Linden Meadows is not a neighborhood? Give us a break, who are you trying to BS?
Wait a minute here, just hold on one church scandal of a minute! The CFA/FOS machine screems non-stop about laws and rules not being followed and how they have instigated federal investigations because of it, yet here we have an example of people being upset that the rules and laws were not followed, and we have CFA/FOS people pitching a bitch fit because someone said something about it? The hypocrisy here is almost as stupid as well, CFA and FOS themselves!
Linden Meadows is not a neighborhood? Give us a break, who are you trying to BS?
As usual, you read what you want to read, even if it's no on the page.
No one wrote that Linden Meadows is or is not a neighborhood. Look again. It's not there.
Let me give FOS a clue:
IT'S NOT ABOUT 7 TREES.
It's about how the city deals with all quality of life issues, including all trees.
Quality of life AND rule of law.
A church getting money from a gambling boat that churches didnt want in the first place? I love it!
I think there is really only one or two people truly upset about the trees themselves. The rest of the people are upset of how it was handled.
1:30 seems like you left a calling card in your post. Try to remember you trademarked words when trying to remain anonymous
or calling mispellings.
st marys are a bunch of catholic hypocrits, they have doug in their back pocket and they know it. say your rosaries all you want you st marys people are a bunch of phony wannabees shirley included, shame on you for destroying those trees just to erect your false idol steeple
Well, that certainly reached a new low.
I am a proud life-long member of St. Mary's Church.
We as a community have a responsibility to care for the church as God's house and as the historical landmark that it is.
St. Mary's was built over 150 years ago.
Any house that is listed on the historical registry has criteria that must be followed when repairing or remodeling that structure. If the negative comments are being correctly interpreted, you are saying that the steeple should not be replaced if 7 trees had to be removed?
In the State's Standards for Preservation it states "The historic character of a property shall be retained and preserved. The removal of historic materials or alteration of features and spaces that characterize a property shall be avoided." I do believe that not replacing the steeple would be a violation of these standards.
I am sure that many of you live in homes where the land had to be "cleared" to make way for construction. I seriously doubt that you chose another site to build upon so as to not disturb the mature trees growing there. And did you replace each and every tree with another after your home was built? Doubt it.
We did not remove the trees on a whim. It was needed to repair our church and to maintain the safety of the sidewalk and the pipes that were being damaged by those trees. I do believe that if your property was in danger, you would also take measures to protect it. You would have to, it is your responsibility as a home owner to do so.
The trees will be replaced with ones that are suitable for the location.
This time of year, I, as well as alot of others have updated the landscaping on our properties. Is it wrong to dig up a flower that no longer fits in with our new design? What about weeds? They are living things as well, did I commit murder when I weeded my garden on Sunday? Where do you draw the line?
I spend a lot of time on the campus of St. Mary's New Albany. I have sweat buckets cleaning those grounds. I am sorry to have missed those of you that lounged under the shade of the now removed trees. I would have happily handed you a rake to help clean up the leaves of your beloved tree.
Please put this in the perspective that it deserves. Trees had to be removed. Had to be done. Period.
We are preserving St. Mary's for the community. If the community feels so strongly about this church, please volunteer to help maintain it. If you just want to drive by and think what a beautiful asset this church is to our community, think twice before criticizing the steps that we take to maintain it.
Hey Christopher D pull that big fir tree out of your A$$ and quit being such a whinny butt! Did you ever rake under those trees or just lounge under them?
Just think if the city wasn't having to pay health insurance on union employees and their spouses for life they could afford to plant trees all over the city for you to lounge your A$$ under.
My, my. The righteous anger on display when all we really want to know is when CM Steve "We don't need no stinking modern world" Price is going to release details (through his intermediary) of the fabled debate.
You now wonder why people hate you!?!
LOL -- trust me, I know. It's because they hate themselves, and to avoid cognitive dissonance, transfer the feeling to another. Classic psychology, Priceians.
However, it's ironic that all the people who hate me never seem to be able to do it with their names attached.
If it's the real thing -- you know, the actual H word, with loathing and detestation and all -- then you'd think they'd want me to know who they are so they could wear it like a badge. Instead, they say it anonymously.
Yawn.
So, let's say you have a dead tree on the city's property next to the street. Who should remove it, and who should pay for it? Homeowner or city?
Let's say the answer is the city. Okay, so when you report it, should it take a year for the BOW to remove it, or less than two days?
Prior to the last week, I had planned on paying someone to remove the dead tree in front of my house. Now, I'd at least like to know what precedent has been established in the church's case. I'll end up paying someone to do it, anyway. I'd just like to know the rule, that's all. Wouldn't all of us, and without all these red herrings being planted by anonymous haters?
After all, it isn't just me. It's the entire 1117 E Spring St Neighborhood Association, ya know.
Think: Monolith.
LOL.
One of England's cardinal laws is the citizens are responsible for the sidewalks. I have personally fought that battle and the only reason I won was because the dead tree had been there for 30 years. That made it the City's problem. I had to threaten to have my home owners insurance sue the city if the dead tree fell. Then and only then did the City take it down.
City laws. What a joke. Which day, which one, who are you, what are you, gee .
I personally have never seen people get so upset over trees especially after the massacre in Linden Meadows.
My daughter tells me she goes to Lousville to take the babies to the park. Why? Because there are NO TREES for shade. There are none at Community Park playground, E 6th St playground, on and on. And you are worried about those trees? Get out and plant us a bunch Christopher. Put your money where you mouth is, all of you.
England was ex communicated from St Mary's at one time. I don't know if he said enough Hail Mary's to get back in. Do your home work.
Don't you love it Shirley they can get so upset over something like St Mary's and not worry about the REST of the community and all trees?
Don't you love it Shirley they can get so upset over something like St Mary's and not worry about the REST of the community and all trees?
What I love is when the reading impaired are so determined to make this about St. Mary's, when it isn't, that they fail to grasp that for once, their sworn "progressive" enemies just might be agreeing with them.
And that, sports fans, is why the little people never win. The hatred is so deep seated that it blinds them.
St Marys must misunderstand too, right?
7:39
I have planted trees thank you very much. Hundreds upon hundreds of them.
I have helped to maintain habitats of critically endangered species, participated in bio-diversity surveys, invasive species surveys, volunteered for the Department of Natural Resources, contributed considerable amounts of educational materials, and money to interpretive centers across the country.
I have made financial contributions to registered agencies and organizations that plant trees and protect habitat across the world.
I bought small house with a small carbon foot print, lowered that carbon footprint with high efficiency appliances, electrical, water conservation, etc.
Each year I give away dozens upon dozens of plants such as rose of sharons, maple trees, native crabapple trees.
What have you done? What will you continue to do? Have you spent your time educating the next generations on the importance of species diversity, protecting threatened species habitat, donating award winning photographs (and the prize money) to educational foundations?
So before you try and judge me because I simply do not like the fact that these trees were cut down, make sure you know the whole story. I probably have done more to help the environment and the creatures who inhabit it in one month than you will do in a life time.
Want a complete list of the organizations my wife, daughter and myself have assisted and how? I will be perfectly happy to email it to you, all you have to do is send me an email address. But you wont, because you would rather remain anonymous and continue to sling mud, call names, throw insults, and remain a faceless, nameless, disonnected character assassin hiding behing the label of "anonymous".
And to my dear friend 5:40, why dont you pull your obsession with my stance on union insurance out of your A$$ and get over it all ready. I wouldnt tell you my stance now if my life depended on it. To quote the younger generation Mrs. 5:40, "quit hatin' g"
Chris what you have to understand is nothing you do will never be good enough for any of these ignorant & arrogant people on here. There are those who know you and know that you work very hard for the community and even harder for those things we take for granted with out a voice. You helped me and my family when we had no where left to turn. How many other business operators are willing to sweep the parking lot so the employees can rest after a busy day or buy a hungry patient lunch and sit down and share a meal with them? How many other people will stop to move a turtle or a snake out of the road? Most would rather over look the hungry, or make their employees do the dirty work or run over the animals in the road. You are a leader but you do it quietly and fairly. Leave these morons to their own self destruction and let the blind here keep leading the blind. See you friday!
Mayor England was not ex-communicated.
Any house that is listed on the historical registry has criteria that must be followed when repairing or remodeling that structure. If the negative comments are being correctly interpreted, you are saying that the steeple should not be replaced if 7 trees had to be removed?
I don't disagree with the tree's removal. I do disagree that you can blame the preservation ordinance. There always are other alternatives to get the steeple up there. They might not be as easy, but there are always other alternatives.
One of England's cardinal laws is the citizens are responsible for the sidewalks.
England's laws?
I didn't know England makes laws. Oh wait a minute, he doesn't make laws.
Then why are you talking about "England's" laws?
The trees will be replaced with ones that are suitable for the location.
Who determines what is "suitable"?
Yes, the "bad" tree could interfere with the building.
However, the public has a right-of-way with the sidewalk. A tree in the public right-of-way is a concern of the citizens. Citizens want to know:
-Will the new tree be a type that attracts lot of nesting birds whose droppings bread disease?
-Will it provide ample shade?
-Will it fit the character of the neighborhood?
There are thousands of varieties of trees. I'm sure we can find one that fits both St. Mary's needs and the public's needs.
I hope St. Mary's shares with the public what type of "suitable" trees it intends to plant.
England was ex communicated from St Mary's at one time.
Shirley, I'm disappointed that you help spread this slander.
Latest FOS slop:
We will march together as Democrats, Republicans and Independents and protest the freedoms being taken away from us and to stand up for what our COUNTRY was founded to be...
Why is COUNTRY in all caps? Nevermind. I still stop trying to make sense of FOS.
QUESTION: What rights are being taken away from you? Last time I checked, the Constitution and the Bill of Rights were still in full force and effect. What rights are being taken away?
ANSWER: None!
Oops. I still = I will.
It's called politicians out of touch with reality and voters. It's called greed in Washington and in New Albany. It's called a lot of things to a lot of people. Whether you can understand the mood the voters are in is what is in question. Rant on.
so your answer is...
....no rights are being taken from the America people?
It's called politicians out of touch with reality and voters.
Which is something very different than losing your freedoms.
40 days and still no arrest
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to 5/25 10:12PM
RE: Mayor England & St. Mary's
This was a lengthy post and I did not want to remove the whole post because of 1 thoughtless sentence.
I was going to dispute the claim until I saw that another person already had so I let it go.
It is hard to determine what to delete and what to let stand. I try to delete as little as possible, contrary to the belief of some people. I am not Solomon and so do not have perfect judgement but I try.
I am sure that if anyone in the community would like to step forward with suggestions on what type of tree to plant at St. Mary's they would be welcome to come and meet with Fr. Harry to discuss it.
Those who do not choose to come forward with suggestions and solutions to today's issues (not only the small issues of St. Mary's) should not waste the precious oxygen that is being depleted by not having those 7 trees next to the church and keep their negative comments to themselves.
http://www.state.in.us/dnr/forestry/files/fo-NativeTreesofIndiana_08.pdf
http://www.urbantree.org/list_trees.asp?t=street
the ideal tree will be one that is native AND on the urbantree.org list of tree species good for cities AND meets St. Mary's needs for the property.
http://www.urbantree.org
I appreciate St. Mary's effort to replace with trees that enhance the neighborhood.
here's how DC deals with it
http://trees.ddot.dc.gov/ufa/site/default.asp
would steve price ever vote for the city to purchase $9 million in equipment? he's say "no" without asking any questions.
well, sometime you save money by investing money. radical concept for some councilmen. louisville's buying $9 million in energy saving equipment that will pay for itself.
http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20100526/NEWS01/5260388/City+plans+$9+in+energy-saving+equipment+that+will+pay+for+itself
so is steve going to debate someone or not?
Guess that's what the "No" in the "No Signs" was all about.
41 days and still no arrest
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I really wish I had actually posted that!
10:06, grow up and quit hatin g!
Hate to burst your little bubble, but my response at this point would be a lot harsher than that one.
9:44 who cares? guess just you.
For Gods sake grow up. Do you realize how stupid you make everyone in this city seem or do you just not care?
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