We had a long and not very productive meeting last night and I will give a brief outline. My report will not be nearly as detailed as Mr. Baylor's.
There is a new format for the agenda. The public officials now speak before the general public. Mr. Carl Malysz spoke first in the Mayor's place:
He had a note from the Mayor which asked that two of the agenda items be tabled. A-09-22 the $2,000,000 for the police and fire depts. from EDIT and G-10-02, the full time attorney for the council. Mr. Ceasar was the sponsor and he complied with the Mayor's wishes.
Mr. Malysz went on to address the comments made at the 2/17 town hall meeting. He said that since Jan. 08 there have been 5 overflows from the sewer system due to the weather. He added that EPA thinks more needs to be done to address this. He also said that even when the Mayor is on vacation they talk daily, sometimes even more.
Chief Juliot (Fire Dept.) was next: he had good news concerning a grant received from Sen. Lugar in the amount of $700,000 to be used to upgrade the communication equipment. This must be shared with other Southern Indiana counties but our share amounts to approx. $180,000.
Mr. Price asked for a public hearing before a vote is to be taken on the sewer rate increase. Mr. Messer said the ordinance needs to be read and a vote taken before Mr. Skomph (from CroweHorwath) can share the details of his meeting with the bondholders and SRL (State Revolving Loans). After the first reading and the first vote, 7 nay no aye, he (Mr. Skomph) shared that the increase was down to 36% now and 19% in 2012. He stressed that immediate action needed to be taken and that he had never seen the government so amiable to an agreement. A meeting was scheduled for March 11 @ 6:00 for the people to express their opinions.
Next were the communications from the public. And of course many people spoke. I will not go into detail but most expressed the same financial problems as those speaking at the town hall meeting. A couple firefighters asked that A-09-22 be passed, not just to save their jobs but for public safety as well.
Finally two resolutions were passed 7-0, R-10-15 a Resolution having to do with L & D Mail Masters, and R-10-06 the Resolution requesting a Forensic Audit. This is being paid for by the Police and Fire Unions.
The fun ended around 9:45. Many people were in small groups in the hall having discussions.
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118 comments:
There were two speakers from the general public who stood out in my mind.
Maurice King had researched on line for several second class cities in Indiana (14 I think) and we had the hightest sewer rate than any of them. Coincidentally that study was done be CrowHorwath too.
Randy Smith suggested that consumers who pay the minimum sewer bill $10.08 per month for 200 cubic feet should have their rates frozen. That way people who conserve will not have an increase.
Has anyone heard from the Engineers and/or EMC? Why haven't the past 'fixes' to the sewers worked? What are the NEW 'fixes' they want to finance? Any guarantees the new fixes will work? What is going on? Might as well 'flush the money' down the toilets!!! Do the sewer board members know what they are doing? Have they used the 'bond' money to expand the sewers to allow new developments? Ask the HARD questions and demand answers!!! Kay, what is the real story?
I felt bad for the lady from Mail Masters having to wait until 9:40 pm, but that's the way it works.
Thanks for the Recap.
I am guessing the big mean guy with the funny haircut (Roger Baylor) and the bald guy with sputtle running down his chin (Randy Smith) were the fake councilmen I have been hearing about. Obviously, they are working for Doug England and Carl Malyse's corruption machine. No one would put that kind of effort into discrediting the City Council unless they were getting greased.
I understand the other two fake city officials Jeff Gillenwater and Mark Cassidy decided to work security at the Greentree Mall instead. At least there they get some respect, especially from the teenagers (its all about the badges).
Thanks for the Recap.
I am guessing the big mean guy with the funny haircut (Roger Baylor) and the bald guy with sputtle running down his chin (Randy Smith) were the fake councilmen I have been hearing about. Obviously, they are working for Doug England and Carl Malyse's corruption machine. No one would put that kind of effort into discrediting the City Council unless they were getting greased.
I understand the other two fake city officials Jeff Gillenwater and Mark Cassidy decided to work security at the Greentree Mall instead. At least there they get some respect, especially from the teenagers (its all about the badges).
do not rely to heavily on any information provided by king
whose side are you on shirley? you are a fence sitter, sorry that wont get you elected.
That guy with the billy goat look is the beer belly baylor and the bald one is the future ex bookseller, watch it unfold boys downtown will crumble while your emperor Doug burns the city down with his sewer hikes, raises and waste, cry in your overpriced beer and sell your books while you can now skinhead, your future is bleak
now shirley its us or them better make your choice soon we real democrats are watching where you stand or if you choose the wrong side where you fall
Larry, your name calling and stupid comments will not deflect the fact that you spent more time on that sewer board than anybody and all you did was barely keep it funded. You had no plan for the future and we will pay the price for it now. You are an angry man because you think you are more important than you ever were. You would have been slaughtered if you would have run again and you know it. Keep making your snide comments about people that have invested their money in this city and are trying to make downtown better. You never had any vision and you are what is wrong with New Albany.
Anon 12:42
Your statements are absolutely disgusting, reprehensible and cowardly.
If you are going to threaten people, and call people things like skin heads and such, have the balls to at least do it in the open, otherwise you are ten times worse than ANYTHING you are trying to point out.
We bow to you the almighty and perfect Christopher D.
Not almighty, and very far from perfect.
I just have no stomach for cowards that would make such statements and not put their name to it.
For example, I am now officially labeling you as a cowardly Arse, and look my name is attached to that... Gee was that so hard?
So feel free to continue your nameless, faceless, powerless grade school bully name calling, but understand, as you are on here, you are in real life, a nameless faceless powerless coward.
Whether a name is put with an insult or not. It is not right! So continue on with your insults and make yourself think you are better because you have the big Christopher D in front of it.
yea just when did putting your name make insults acceptable? if you are going to make insults yourself with or without your name then learn how to take them.
Badges...they dont need no stinkin' Badges!
My how we digress from the real issues!
Anonymous 1:43 Christopher D has a way of doing that.
There is a point to posting my name with the intentional insults.
And it goes for Baylor, Smith, Cassidy, and all of your favorite targets.
When we say something, we put our name to it. People KNOW where we stand, and people KNOW what we think, and people can engage us on those issues.
Those who will NOT put their name to it, and issue threats, call people skinheads, commies, etc, are probably the ones who will not say a word in person, why because they are backstabbing cowards.
They wont stand up for a damn thing unless they think they have the safety of anonymity, or in a group of matching t-shirt wearing bullies.
These types of anonymous, un accountable attacks are the BIGGEST problem we have getting anything done around here.
Everything has to turn into a big damn fight. Anyone whose opinion differs slightly is intantly attacked, discredited, lied about, etc. And for what and by whom? Nobody knows why or from whom, because those doing it are too busy hiding behind their keyboards.
And now that Shirley has taken a moderate stance, you start in on her as well, and she really doesnt deserve it, if you dont agree with her stance, then just say so, but why the hell you feel the need to rake her through the mud is beyond me.
As far as being able to dish it out and take it, water off a ducks back to me, honestly. (I just love to get you all riled up sometimes, I find it entertaining)
I get threatened all the time, I get cursed at, stuff thrown at me by some of the people we are trying to help, but I help them anyway. Anything that can be thrown at me here is amateurish at best in comparison to what I can get at work sometimes. But hell, at least they do it in person!
My point is, when are the "real" little people going to realize that those who are "fighting" for them are actually causing much of the problems with these kinds of tactics.
But the nameless, faceless, powerless assertation stands, because it is a fact, its not an opinion.
Thank you so much Christopher D for your fine explanation of why it is acceptable for you to insult others. You almost have me believing now that you are entitled to your childish insults.
Oh, you are very welcome!
Hey, I've tried playing "nice", and I got insulted, threatened, my family made fun of etc.
I have tried just reading and not posting, and I got insulted, my family made fun of, etc.
I have posted my same thoughts "anonymously" and had you guys eating out of my hand, even asking me to run for council. As soon as I let the cat out of the bag it was me, the onslaught of insults, name calling, little threats insued, and how everything I typed anon style was BS.
So what the hell, right? If this is how politics are in the town, then count me in. If this kind of BS is going to keep us and our council from gettnig anything done, may as well jump on board, right.
By the way, does an anonymous poster have a name on here? NO, hence nameless. Does an anonymous poster havea face a person can recognize as someone who threatened them on here? No? Hence, faceless.
Can an anonymous poster stand up and be accountable for for good or bad ideas they put on a forum like this, the can claim to, but in reality they can not, hence powerless.
Is a person who would take a shot at another person from behind not very honorable, no? hence cowardice.
It sucks when your own standards of measurements regarding entitlement to facts is turned against you, is it not?
Thank you again Christopher D for another fine explanation of why you feel it is acceptable for you to insult others. Again, you almost have me believing that you are entitled to your childish insults, but you're still not quite there. Perhaps another nine paragraph posting will do it.
How about this one, do you think its possible since there are those who have set the example that this type of behavior is perfectly acceptable in our local political arena's, there are council persons who have adopted the ideology that if their more vocal constituents are all right with that, then its fine for them to behave that way as well?
And maybe, just maybe, that is part of the problem in this city?
I dont like calling people names, I dont like being confrontational, but choose your favorite cliche'
1) its a dog eat dog world
2) When in rome
3) whats good for the goose
But you have failed thus far to say anything regarding the justification of why its acceptable for anonymous people to make threats and call people names, but you would readily admonish me for saying in my opinion its cowardly, reprehensable, and childish?
Unfortunately, your rationale is not convincing enough for me. I do not believe one should insult at all, with their name attached to the insult or without their name attached to it. You have been the one trying to justify that it is ok for you to insult because you attach your name to it. I personally believe that if you choose to insult even with your name attached to it, then you're contributing to the problem just as well.
No further explanation is required on your part. You've posted enough trying to explain your personal justifications that allows you to feel comfortable insulting others and not be considered part of the problem.
we disagree.
Actually, we dont disagree, we agree perfectly on that.
It's just not "right" any way you put it.
But sometimes you gotta throw it all out there to make a point, even if it takes a while.
So, 2:56, just how often have you jumped up and defended people who were insulted? And not just your anonymous brethren. I think it's called a sin of omission.
I don't believe that you should be throwing stones either.
Anon 12:42
All I did was report on the meeting last night. I did not editorialize so I don't know why you think I took a certain stand or that I am sitting on the fence.
I don't want the rate increase any more than anyone else. But what can we do? We can express our opinions and even yell at the Sewer Board members or the Council Members, they Mayor, CroweHorwath, anybody we want. I doubt that it will do any good.
Personally, I hope they do find a way to lower the rate increase below the 36% and 19% that was discussed last night. I am afraid of committing EDIT funds though because we don't know what is in the future, and Mr.Skomph said that if we commit the EDIT funds it would be hard to get them released.
Everyone is angry and frustrated, I know that but I don't have all of the answers anymore than you do.
P.S. I am friends with a lot of "real Democrats" and they do not question my loyalty or my ideals.
BTW I did not defend Roger Baylor, Randy Smith, Jeff Gillenwater, Mark Cassidy Christopher Drake, Doug England, Carl Malysz,Larry Kochert, Dan Coffey or anyone else.
They are all grown men quite capable of handling themselves.
Mr. Cassidy, I do not care to continue bickering over insults whether they are from people posting anonymously or with their name. I have stated and continue to state I think it is wrong even if you put your name to it. I have not thrown insults at others, simply asked that people not resort to them with or without their name attached to them. If you consider this a sin or that I am throwing stones, then I'm willing to accept you think that way.
Anon 5:19 PM,
If you had not, as you indicated, been insulting anyone, then if anything I posted towards you was offensive, for that I apologize.
Your rationale is sound, and like previously stated, it really is not right under any circumstance.
However, I will note that calling a persons actions cowardly, reprehensable and childlike is in a different league than calling people skinheads, fat, liars, criminals, theives, etc.
Yes, I am hypocritic on a fundamental level on this, but I am addressing the persons actions, not the person themself.
I do not engage in insulting a persons family, nor do I insult them for there religious beliefs, or lack there of, I do not insult them for their physical appearance or anything like that, which for far too long has been part of the play book for the anon group on here, simply because they know they can do it and get away with it behind their mask.
After the "town hall" meeting, that has now gone a step further and the same factions that everyone KNOWS does that on here, have now decided its okay to do that in real life, to people who were not even around to defend themselves, or to people who have done nothing to deserve being called what they were.
In actuality, it is sort of on topic, because this acceptance of that behavior has begun to severely poison.
I would hope to bring this to light so that it can be addressed and remedied before the public hearing on the sewage issue, too much time is being wasted at these events with people calling others names, and using it for a stage to further their own hatred for individuals. If we as a community can do no better than that, how can we honestly expect those who are elected to represent us to do better than that?
Shriley, you found the meeting last night unproductive?
For the First time a lot of information was given to the public. Just like the lady Roger felt bad for many people would have bennifeted if Mr. Skomph addressed the public before the meeting ever began.
There is so much to talk about and there many be many way things can be different.
Thank You Shirley for your efforts.
RemChar,
It seemed unproductive to me because two resolutions were tabled and nothing was decided on the sewers.
But yes, it was informational.
If someone had questions for Mr. Skomph it would have been better addressed at the sewer board meetings.
These city council members complain that they don't get information. The problem is they don't go to where the information is and get it.
How can those fools tell a CPA from an Internationally renowned financial analysis firm that he is wrong.
Council salary covers more than just showing up twice a month. They should put in a little footwork and not wait to be spoonfed the info they want to hear.
"How can those fools tell a CPA from an Internationally renowned financial analysis firm that he is wrong".
10:29 Be assured, you are being fooled. Mr. Skomp told the council and the city for 2 weeks there was no way around a 70 percent increase in the sewer rates less we default on the current bonds. Only after he is challenged by the NA City Council does he recant.
We want to know how much Mr. Skomp has to gain should the sewer rate and $7 million refi goes through. Stay tuned, and try to keep from showing your ignorance.
Mrs. Baird,
We use EDIT on YMCA and back it up with our property taxes. Why not use EDIT for SEWERS?
It's your money and my money. The hell with downtown, Industrial Park and being misused and mismanaged.
I want a complete Sewer Audit.
To many questions not enough answers.
When they open their mouths and say; "We need it done NOW", the red lights go off and red flags fly everywhere.
Mr Skomp was baseing his opinion on the numbers at hand. It wasn't until the state agreed to change the terms and structure of the debt that the lower number was possible. He had no power to negotiate with the state on the city's behalf.
The city council thumbed their collective noses at him and Ed Clere for their hard work in negotiateing the restructure.
"How can those fools tell a CPA from an Internationally renowned financial analysis firm that he is wrong"
There at least two to three things that I know Mr. Skomph had wrong.
First, He thought that because the council voted the 70% rate increase down the ordinance was killed. I pick up on this from what he said before he finished addressing the council.
Once he went into the hallway I asked him if this is how I understood him. I was scared that he would leave and tell the bondholders this. His reply was that I understood him correctly, that the ordinance was dead. Once this point was established I informed him that it was not dead that we would have the public hearing and a second and third amended reading would happen. He said,” No your wrong the council voted unanimously, no and that killed the bill." I again told him that this is not how it works. Before I could finish he said that he had been doing this for years and I didn’t know what I'm talking about. His mannerisms became anxious so I went to Marcy to ask someone else even though I was present for Stan Robinson’s legal clarifications to the council on this vary matter. I quickly returned because I thought someone else would have noticed the same thing I did but no one had. I told Mr. Skomph that I got confirmation that what I told him was accurate. He told me that, "This is the only city I know to do it that way every city I've been to that votes no on one reading kills the ordinance". At that time he turned to Shane Gibson and interrupted Shane's conversation and asked him if what I said was right. Shane, only paying half attention said yes we would have a second and third readings. He told Shane that it would be wise to make sure on that. Once I noticed that he began to believe me I told him I only made mention of it because I notice what he was saying after the council voted no and I didn't want him to leave by chance and tell the bond holders New Albany voted down the 36-19 plan. He turned to Shane again and said he(Shane) needs to check. I left it at that and shook his hand.
Later after getting off the elevator Mr. Skomph was at the main lobby exit and he stopped me and apologized. He exchanged pleasantries and I said all I cared about was that he didn't tell bondholders anything that would come back at us. We again shook hands and I left him talking with Shane.
"Anonymous said...
Mrs. Baird,
We use EDIT on YMCA and back it up with our property taxes. Why not use EDIT for SEWERS?"
-----------------
Because...it's not legal to use windfall, riverboat, rainy day, income taxes, or property taxes to pay for sewer utility expenses.
The utility must pay for its own expenses from rates to users. No exceptions. Am amazed no one has asked a judge to overrule the despicable transfer of wealth from working people to the big water users, businesses, and non-residents.
Do they think we're stupid? I think they do.
Mr. Skomphh is an expert but they aren't always right.
I not saying that Mr. Skomph would have left without anyone saying what I told him but there was a chance he could of. I have worked with many Architects, Engineers, Lawyers, and Doctors all in the same room together, and at times, the more people think they are an expert the greater the ego and greater the chance for a mistake to be made. We all make mistakes experts or not and this was not the only discrepancy Mr. Skomph made.
RemCha makes a valid point. In many munis, voting down a bill at first reading is the end. In NA, not so much.
Nonetheless, the city CPA from CroweHorwath is ethically bound to tell the state financing authority and private bondholders that the signal sent from the New Albany city council was an "FU, bankers. You can't muscle us."
Well, yes they can. And an ethical certified public accountant is honor-bound to tell the truth: The New Albany Common Council showed zero intent to correct the inequities and deficiencies of the sewer fund. Mr. Gonder lobbied to have a better face on it, but Mr. Gahan's (erroneous) point of order made any reasonable (and ethical professional) person be compelled that to report back that the New Albany city council has zero inclination to comply with the city/sewer board's obligation to maintain a rate sufficient to comply with the creditors' requirements to secure their lending.
We're currently in default. Nothing that happened Thursday would say this council wants anything other than receivership, privatization to a for-profit owner, and unregulated future rate increases.
Who is being paid off to give away our valuable investment in the sewer utility? Those who accept the 36-19 plan, or those who will do anything to scuttle the "phenomenal" deal?
My sister's cousin is an SAC with the FBI, and he says it's common for little fish like councilman Coffey to spend 6 yrs in Marion for accepting cash to steer public utilities into the hands of private interests.
It has happened elsewhere. Looks suspiciously like it's happening right here in New Albany. Who among us wants to give away our sewer utility, and who is getting paid to make sure that happens?
Thank you, Shirley, for providing an outlet where the truth can be put out without fear of being found out and punished.
May I disagree with you politely?
No doubt about Coffey. I concede on the analysis.
BUT, make no mistake New Albany rate/tax payers HAVE to HAVE answers regarding the moneys spent, and where they were spent, and why they were spent there.
If you can possibly comprehend such an idea as most New Albanians have, we WANT the Bondholders to come after us; we WANT the State to step in; WE WANT the EPA to stop our nightmare. We'll take one or all three; simply show citizens where and what and why about our money! It is not we want New Albany to fail; we want an end to corruption in NA -- or at least what MOST FEEL is corruption.
WE WANT OUR MONEYS ACCOUNTED FOR. WE DO NOT WANT TO REWARD INCOMPENTECE, MALFEASANCE, IGNORANCE, ETC.
I hope we can respectfully disagree. As far as myself, PLEASE, let the Bondholders take over and find out where our money is; let the State take over and find out what happened to our money; let the EPA take over and do the right thing by all. Do you not think since 1987 our sewers should be lined with gold or even made out of gold? Do you have a grasp of the figures and moneys spent unaccounted for?
Citizens want accountability and I guess most of us are willing to let the City go into Reciveourship if that's what it takes. We are past caring; we will not PAY any increase -- let 'em collect it when we sell our homes; we are against bigger government; we want an INVESTIGATION who, where, what, when, where, and why.
We are not being agnostic. We simply do not know of any other way for the facts emerging. As far as a forensic audit, how can the police and fire say it won't cover sewers as they are as aware as we are the loans made to the general fund to prop up same and some not paid back? How can they not?
It's one thing to be lied to; it's another thing to be considered stupid.
Appreciate the conversation, and A PLACE TO HAVE same, LOL.
mr skomph is trying to make a buck---period. he wants his company to get the job of telling us what to do. Fifer will get more. since 2003 he has made 282k just off of the city not counting his 24k retainer each year. Now he can afford more lyposuction andhair plugs.
THEY ARE IN IT BECAUSE THEY ARE MAKING BIG MONEY HERE----WHY DO YOU THINK FIFER CAME BACK TO THE SEWER BOARD---OUT OF THE GOODNESS OF HIS HEART???? GET REAL.
The financial analysis guy (his name is spelled more ways than khadafi). Is making money each time he comes back to explain his plan. After last night I think he thinks he is underpaid. He has no interest besides that.
He was given a set of numbers and told us how to fix the problems from a strictly financial point of view. When the numbers changed he told us how to move forward from that point.
If the bond holders take over they will have carte blanch to charge whatever they want. They aren't going to care where the other money (allegedly) is. They will just collect new money.
Ain't going to be any new money.
"or at least what MOST FEEL is corruption."
That's the problem. You "feel" corruption and are willing to bring down everything because of it. Bring it down if you have proof and I'll be right there with you. Otherwise, it's just like "feeling" that Roger can hack a computer. It's nonsense.
The financial analysis guy (his name is spelled more ways than khadafi).
Now that's a funny line. Good one.
12:55 a.m.
You wrote: "If you can possibly comprehend such an idea as most New Albanians have, we WANT the Bondholders to come after us; we WANT the State to step in; WE WANT the EPA to stop our nightmare."
Just letting you know that I intend to use this quote, and more from your 12:55 post, in my Tribune column next week. Thanks.
Mark, if the council appropriated money to hire 5 new officers and the money was spent on current police budget to cover overspending/under-funding this is misuse and a minor level of corruption. I don't know I would think by law the money would have to be used as appropriated?
Jack Messer said at a council meeting that police officers are being promoted that don't do the duties the promotion requires.
The council said that 450,000 was used out of a TIF for sewers that is unaccounted for. This information didn't come from Price and Coffey but Pat,Jeff,Diana,and Jack.
How can any council member willingly vote appropriations if none of it goes where they agree it goes? I was present for discussion for the 500,000 for police I know what was agreed on and it is not what happened. Proof enough for me.
Money was supposed to be used to persuade Firefighters into retirement to help lower budget cost and money was instead used to buy a boat. Money was used to purchase a building using inappropriate money.
The only argument some of you have made is the problem is because the council is not willing to appropriate the money or raise rates. How can they if they know it will not be used as agreed to?
Use the posting ALL YOU WANT TO New Albanian. Please do not take it out of context as your buddy Randy took people's words out of context by leaving out their entire statements.
After talking with mortgage officers and banking officials in the past two days they agree with me. ONLY when certain people are proved to have committed malfeasance of office will this nightmare stop.
Strength comes in numbers and Bondholders have the money and the power to find what happened to the money. Put that in your article 2.
Please do not take it out of context ...
Sure, as soon as I stop laughing. I've received permission from the anonymous to quote something of unknown origin, not knowing if the anonymous person writing the original post is the same anonymous person giving permission to use it.
Don't worry. Your words speak volumes. They should be quoted accurately and exactly, so that genuinely sane people not suffering from terminal narcissism can see the nature of the pottyist police state.
"Just letting you know that I intend to use this quote, and more from your 12:55 post, in my Tribune column next week".
Don't forget to use the story about the two Engineers who quit the Sewer Board, under Regina's Reign. Have you read the sewer board minutes? You can just give a summary of those. Ah heck, Mr. Baylor, don't forget to throw in the statements on the Audits from the State Board of Accounts, while you are at it! We know you do ALL your homework.
Of course Daniel does try to stick to the facts writing his newspaper articles. But you, Mr. Baylor, seem to enjoy writing fiction. You just need to label it that way.
I'm planning on writing about that million bucks y'all kept saying was coming to me from Mayor Garner.
Don't know who wrote that, but was there a time limit on it?
Jameson,
You may not have been on the blogs long enough to remember, but I have protested 100k that was spent by the administration to buy a boat for the fire department. That 100k was originally appropriated to fund pensions. Turns out it wasn't needed so it was spent on the boat. It was not illegal(the devil is in the details)but I still don't think it was right. As much as I detest Mr. Coffey, I am with him on that particular case.
My point here is, I'm not for anyone. I'm for what is fair. Notice that I didn't use the word "right" because what is "right" is as often as hard to define as the "truth". And often far too narrow.
Your biggest problem is, lack of "history". Yvonne and the anonymous cowards have been going on for years about corruption and officials just about to go to jail. They "knew" this because they had the proof. Boxes and boxes of it. Where the hell is their proof? I've been listening and reading their rants for 5 years. It's the same old stuff and they never have any proof. No official has went to jail or been convicted of anything. Perhaps that is "yet". I don't know. What I do know, one of the accusers has been to jail and is now a convicted felon. All the while being a block watch captain. Go figure.
You do a little more research on the local scene and I'll try to read a little more Socrates.
Mark
Maybe you were not in court where 10 citizens had a dolly with reams of information to prove the point. $1 million bonds on the heads of all c oncerned made these citizens drop out. They knew the plan would not work (and it didn't); they had worked with fire and police to fix the compromised books when all the hire dates rolled back to everyone being hired at the same time. YOU gather your own boxes of info. People still have same in their possession. No one has called for anyone to go to jail simply for the truth to come out.
We can only hope now it will and the ones who fantasize and can not or will not realize this has been an ongoing saga since 1987 can become educated and I do hope u get angry at the trust you have put into people non deserving of same.
The case is on the internet with the list of citizens involved who had the reams of information. The "proof" you want was presented to the Lion's Club and elsewhere. It's not like it was hidden from anyone. Welcome to the party, johnny come lately.
Let's play the blame game! WHICH PERSON CHANGED THEIR VOTE BEHIND CLOSED DOORS AFTER PLAN WAS ALREADY SELECTED UNDER OVERTON?
WHO TOLD UTZ AND LEDFORD THEY CHANGED THEIR VOTES BECAUSE THEY MUST NOT NEED THE JOB AND HE DID?
I'll be anxiously waiting on the name. Those who know (lol), u can't play ok?
And, don't forget the PLAN selected behind closed doors didn't work. And, it wasn't the plan Sewer Board and Engineers selected along with public opinion.
This really ought to be interesting.
Mark, you addressed the boat but not the other issues. Also, agreements have been made in executive session to sale property and that is in violation of the open doors law.
You of all people should know how difficult it is to change illegal government procedures. If I'm not mistaken you are vary familiar with the lawsuit about districting. Other people can identify the same type of discrepancies but can't get any help.
I don't know who Yvonne is but I know she has very little to do with what is happening downtown or the validity of what I said. I am focused on the present and yes I use history to decipher it.
If there is not a collaborative effort for transparency then nothing fair will ever happen.
Yvonne, what's not to love?
I can't figure out how it is all her fault either. Fascinating. Good comment.
If any one follows the $ discredit has to be applied so transparency will never occur. Wonder why?
My mentioning of Socrates has nothing to do with holding it over peoples’ heads and I would never have used it if it weren’t for Roger comparing himself to him.
I'm only holding Roger to the same level he holds other people, or the level I think I hold myself to, and I'm still sure his understanding of Socrates being a Gadfly is wrong. Socrates was misunderstood and he said people perceived him to be a Gadfly not that he wanted to be a gadfly, the way Roger was presenting himself in his article.
If you wish to study Socrates I will not think of you anymore than I do now or nor I think of you any less. Respect should be given and then lost. It doesn't have to be earned.
Shame Y will be able to prove u wrong. Everything Y ever said was recorded and in the minutes. Where do you get your fairness from? Assumptions towards the worse? Hope Y writes a column 2 and it appears the same day as Baylor. Now, that would be a hoot.
I know the answer to the ? Wish u would let me respond!
Jameson,
My point is, everyone seems to think a person has to be either for or against. I've argued against many things that the administration has done/not done. I'm not for or against the administration or the council. I am against calling people crooks without proof.
Look at the answer the anonymous "person"just made to me. See the boxes came up again. (Ask them what their boxes proved in court) And every time we ask to see claimed information, they tell us to go get our own information. He/She said it all in the same comment this time. (They are getting more efficient) If they have proof of criminal activity, corruption, etc. they could get it prosecuted. In just the last couple of months I've read about 2 or 3 local officials in Indiana being prosecuted for misconduct.
The person in question is/was a part of the infamous Potty Police. Has long been involved in attempting to prove fraud in the sewers. Even ran for Mayor. I believe that she can't even vote now. I think that is one of the privileges that you lose once convicted. Again, if she/they are correct, it shouldn't be that hard to get the bad guys prosecuted. Politics, they claim. Why that's even on their side. We have a Republican prosecutor and practically the whole state government is Republican. (Don't forget to ask them about their day in court--just a reminder).
Who is against transparency? Not me. Nor any of my friends that I'm aware of. We are and have been out in the open all the time. That's a form of transparency, too. Warts and all. As you also know.
Mark
NAPP never called anyone crooks.
Bad Audits show misuse of money - ignore that fact.
Environmental pollution in and from sewage.
The former Prosecutor was England's campaign manager. The now Prosecutor handled the bonds and made a cut off of same for malpractice insurance. No, we will leave it to the Feds.
You do realize that Speak Out loud New Albany(SOLNA)is still up? You might want to rethink that statement. Also, what you are suggesting about the attorneys could be illegal activity by them.(don't you just hate it when you step right in the middle of "it"?)
One more time, if there has been illegal activity, let's line 'em up and shoot them. Gross mismanagement(a relative term))?. Throw the bum(s)out.
How did that day in court go again? Was the judge somebody's cousin?
Leave the computer for a few hours and all kinds of comments appear.
Guess what - The same person does not write every Anonymous comment!
All the people who comment Anonymously do not all belong to the same group!
Surely no one is trying to derail these discussions on purpose – do you think?
Who knows how to ignore the distractions?
There is a need to stay on point about the finances and sewers.
Susan
- but did putting my name on this comment really, really matter?
Thank you Shirley for still allowing Anonymous comments.
To Iamhoosier - When Yvonne ran for office, do you remember her platform? She’d take a salary cut - park the cars – shut all the departments down (except the essential Departments of Police and Fire) to check the books. That was 1999.
After reading the SBA Audits for the last few years and reading the “Rate Report” on the Municipal Sewage Works, what is your conclusion? What do you think should be done?
You line 'em up and shoot them. Watch out - he is threatening you!
None are so blind than those who will not see.
To Iamhoosier-
“what you are suggesting about the attorneys could be illegal activity by them”
Just the facts - Keith Henderson handled the bonds for the sewer work done under Mayor Overton. Instead of the full amount taken by attorneys for handling the bonds, he said he would only take enough to pay for the malpractice insurance he needed for handling the bonds.
”How did that day in court go again? Was the judge somebody's cousin?”
You are so WRONG!
“(don't you just hate it when you step right in the middle of "it"?)”
Let me make sure that I understand you . Yvonne has all kinds of proof of illegal activity at city hall. She has boxes of proof of illegal activity in the sewer dept. Yet, she doesn't know her husband is cultivating, and selling (and smoking) pounds and pounds of pot in her own basement. I think you just stepped in it.
Why do you keep saying Yvonne has proof of all kinds of illegal goings on downtown? Ignorance is bliss if you can not understand she is not the only who tried to make a stand.
Be careful where you tread my friend. You have no clue.
There are hard copies showing two sets of books under Overton? Shall someone fax them to you?
Never mind, it would take too long to fax that many pages...but more than sure they still exist.
Do you not remember the ex controller admitting to keeping two sets of books in a council meeting? Ah, history.
Know the lady in question well. She will be thankful if she is taking the brunt of the sewer fiasco rather than the castration and name calling you have extolled on other good people in this town. I can hear her chuckling from here, if she would simply read what has transpired here.
Back to the sewers, bonds, illegal buying of buildings, bad audits, lack of leadership, etc.
She would also understand how the distraction machine works and laugh some more.
When the truth comes out I am sure there will be more laughter but she will have the last laugh. I have known her too long and know how she cares about her community.
She is one tough old bird and has extremely thick skin.
Anybody who wishes anyone harm is despicable in MY BOOK.
She allowed drugs to be manufactured and sold in her house. Drugs are what are pulling this city to the ground. You can sing her praises all night long but she (and hers) are reponsible for things like vandalism, theft and even murder that is why we need more money for police.
Drugs and the crime that comes along with it has cost this town ten times more than any corruption she may or may not uncover
put that in your pipe.
Don’t have a pipe. New Albany and its overflowing sewers were in bad shape long before Yvonne moved here. Wish you could talk to the people who have gone to their graves, fighting.
Perhaps New Albany needs more companies and businesses that pay decent living wages for the little people. Maybe that explains why so many houses are empty and/or are up for sale.
Maybe someone should compare the income of New Albany citizens with other cities, along with those sewer rate comparisons.
Perhaps New Albany needs more companies and businesses that pay decent living wages for the little people. Maybe that explains why so many houses are empty and/or are up for sale.
Could be. Also might be because people rush off every day to spend their money at Wal-Mart, which keeps money flowing out of the local community and straight to China.
You want living wages for Americans? You'd best come to grips with the way you spend your money. Otherwise it's all hot air.
i am all for supporting local merchants as long as they are competitive in price but why should anybody pay exhorbitant prices just to raise them, lets see your grocery list baylor, do you only buy local? Last time I checked walmart is a local store and employing local people doesnt most of your beer come from overseas?
By your philopsophy you should only sell your own brew since 90% of what you sell isnt local.
I'm quite aware that it not just one person. I'm wrong about "court"? Fair enough. Educate me about your "win" in court. I'm listening(reading).
She would have taken a salary cut?
I'll just let that one pass. Way too easy.
I know Roger can answer this much more accurately that I can but I'll take a stab.
I would guess that the volume of beer sold by NABC that is made in the USA around 75%.
anybody who follows baylor is a true moron unlike Steve price, now who is the moron baylor?
ok so 75% is usa beer still not local is it?
probably if people would just stop spending their money on beer and alcohol they would be in better shape.
Mark, I'm not entirely sure, but it's probably approaching that.
At Bank Street Brewhouse, all the beer we serve is made there or at the brewery at Grant Line. There is a tiny hops farming effort underway in the Knobs, and when possible, we buy from them.
Chef Josh uses as many local suppliers as possible. It would be cheaper to buy otherwise.
It's not surprising that my point was lost. People squawk about living wages. Wages have a correlation with prices, and since wages are lower in China (still a Communist country, eh, Steve Price?), prices at Wal-Mart are lower. Yes, locals are employed. The profits all go to Arkansas.
The little people are all about the "rules," until the "rules" make them unhappy, and then they change the subject. That's what happens when you're a bitter old wannabeen, right, King Larry?
Now everybody together - check all the labels on your clothing. Anybody wearing clothing made in the USA? (Yes, you can count that hand made scarf, hat, mittens and socks you received for Christmas).
No more Seinsheimer’s and M. Fine & Sons, etc. Those jobs went overseas years ago. Look in your crystal ball. The economy still hasn’t finished that nose-dive. It’s back to the future. Everyone growing their own food (unless they live by a manhole or a creek in New Albany), making their own clothes, etc. Without good decent paying jobs people won’t even be able to afford to go to Walmart. How many people are going to need to support their adult children?
I really try as much as I can to support my local businesses. But I can not support local businesses that are operated by those who have such disregards for other citizens of this community that they will resort to bashing, name calling, and other degrading remarks towards them. I refuse to condone that type of behavior, just like they can’t support Wal-mart.
I know I am not alone in this thinking. These owners would probably tell us that they are doing fine without our patronage. They might be doing fine but they are definately not doing as well as they could for their businesses or for this community.
Great story in the Trib:
Huber lands hall of fame award. (Joe) Huber developed his U-pick farm, allowing people to come and pick their own fruits and vegetables from his crop.
If you can’t grow your own food, go try picking it yourself. Truly fresh from the farm.
and the huber's never made it a practice of bashing the citizens of the community it serves.
And what else that should happen is everyone on business should pay their fair share.
Anyone remember this one?
In december 2007 sewer board found out John Mattingley had not paid a sewer & water bill in over 20 years. The sewer board could only go back on him for three years. We found out in 2008 the City of New Albany cut Good ole John a check for $23,000.
And they wonder why we are broke as a city!!!!!!!
When have you ever played by the rules Mr. Baylor?
Mark, I trying to understand your point. You are for transparency but when someone like Yvonne accuses corruption on the sewer board and then starts a group to monitor the sewer board you call it the potty police. Shouldn't such a group be welcomed? If they withhold that information they are. just as guilty as their accused but if they are refusing to cooperate because they are taunted and poked fun of as the potty police I could understand their reasoning for not wanting to.
RememberCharlemagne . . i agree with your statement.
sad fact is that some on here will never be able to look at any view point but their own. they do exactly what they accuse others of doing and resort to name calling. it's not a sincrere effort on their behalf to resolving problems or issues, they are more interested in being mean to people.
Recent blog contributions from a local 56+ year old citizen.
Iamhoosier said...I don't think Randy sells many(if any)coloring books, so your boycott should have little impact.
Iamhoosier said...Also, I'm still waiting for the anonymous cowards to explain how I'm trying to satisfy my personal greed. Exactly what am I getting from the city that is fattening up my bank account? Cowardly and stupid, what a combination.
Iamhoosier said... Misspelling is one thing, not getting someones name correct is another. Just another example of stupid.
Iamhoosier said... "You forget most of our relatives work for this city." Well, that explains a lot of the problems NA has. "Stupid is as stupid does." Forrest Gump
Iamhoosier said... 9:54, I sure hope your husband communicates better than you do.
Iamhoosier said... Good. I wasn't talking about him. What the hell were you talking about? "The make a profit of $1 million dollars." ??
Iamhoosier said... If he is so smart, why is Georgetown in even worse shape than us? Perhaps he should clean up his own backyard first. (Don't bother, yeah, he probably owns property here--maybe that's another problem)
Iamhoosier said... I think this could filed under, "Chickens coming home to roost".
History, my dear Jameson, history. I didn't pick the name "Potty Police". Just like I didn't pick the name, "Little people". Here's a quote from 2005:
"We are entitled to have such an audit before us before they can assess rate increases. All they have now is a 5 month financial report."
Also from 2005:
"But the one main thing Ceese he never said was this: FACT: The City of New Albany is Bankrupt!"
Sound familiar? There's thousands more. Yeah, "they" could be right. I recognize that. I don't want corruption or mismanagement anymore than anyone else. The one little fact that "they" keep missing--I pay taxes too. If someone is stealing it, I want it stopped. However, someone continually writing "**** is a crook" doesn't make it so and eventually becomes a hindrance.
Found out how "they" did in court, yet?
someone continually writing "STUPID" doesn't make it so and eventually becomes a hindrance.
I stand by everyone of those comments. It's just like an anonymous coward to not include what preceded and provoked each of my comments. Telling half a story is the same as lying.
Feel free to add that to your list.
I provide proof, that's the difference. Well, actually some of you provide it...
When have you ever played by the rules Mr. Baylor?
If you have something to say, go ahead and say it. It'd be less cowardly to say it to my face, but I realize that's asking too much.
STUPID COWARD...Sounds like a grumpy ole man with a limited vocabulary.
Yep, we agree that you have provided the proof.
They might be doing fine but they are definately not doing as well as they could for their businesses or for this community.
Okay. So tell us: How could they do better for their businesses and the community?
To RememberCharlemagne and anyone interested:
I have reported to EPA and the Sewer Board the problems I saw with the New Albany sewers starting about 1991. I first started reporting to the Water Pollution Control Board and IDEM about pollution in Fall Run Creek maybe around 1987. I reported dead fish to DNR and the Sheriff’s office. I think Yvonne joined me about the time the city threatened to block her sewer line with concrete. We gave ourselves the unofficial name of Potty Police, to try and add a little humor to what we saw and did. (However, we heard some called us snitches and spies). We drove around and walked the creeks tracing out problems. (Yes we were careful when we were in the location of the Copperheads we heard about at a Sewer Board meeting). We’ve reported overflows, backups, and other problems to EPA and the Sewer Board for years and talked to many citizens. We talked to officials at IDEM, EPA and the Department of Justice. Commented on the many versions of the Consent Decrees. We did not with hold any information. However, I am not sure any officials with held any information from us. Anyone can read the Sewer Board and City Council minutes. Also, go look at New Albany’s file in the Federal Building.
Susan Johnson
Thanks for the background, Susan. I know you were not doing it to "help" me but thanks anyway.
And for anyone who may be interested, there have been times over the past few years that I have thanked Y & S for some of their efforts. Watchdogs are good thing but like anything else, sometimes they get a little out of hand. Just like me over the past couple of days.
Peace
"Okay. So tell us: How could they do better for their businesses and the community?"
The comment was directed at those business owners that resort to bashing, name calling, and making degrading remarks towards citizens of this community. These businesses would like the citizens of this community to support them but at the same time find it quite acceptable to bash certain citizens in this community. Not all citizens feel these comments are warranted or acceptable and therefore have chosen not to support these businesses based on the owners actions. Since some citizens have decided not to patronize these establishments, these business are not making as much money as the could be and money that might have stayed local may now be going elsewhere.
5PM: Truer words were never spoken. New Albany is a very 'politically sensitive' town. Might explain why some businesses have folded.
To iamhoosier: There is so much more to the history of sewers and drainage in New Albany. The city has been on a sewer ban, since at least 1991. I thought one day EPA would say absolutely NO to any new development, until the city went 2 years with no major problems. I think if that had happened, those developers would have pitched in and helped as fast as they could. However, with the way this economy is now, I’m not sure that could happen. So now everyone is back hoping for a government program like the WPA to come in again and help fix the sewers.
Yes, peace - and still hoping there is a way for NO Sewer rate increase for New Albany.
Susan
OUR CONCERNS ARE A SEWER RATE INCREASE, NOT LOCAL BUSINESS DOWNTOWN.
I AM TOTALLY AGAINST A RATE INCREASE. UNTIL THE ENGLAND ADMINISTRATION OPENS UP THE FOURTEEN ACCOUNTS AND AUDITS THE SEWER FUND, I WILL NOT SUPPORT NOT ONE NICKEL OF AN INCREASE. DO YOU HEAR ME MAYOT ENGLAND, NOT ONE RED CENT COMES OUT OF MY BUDGET UNTIL YOU SHOW ME AND MY FAMILY A JUSTIFICATION FOR A RATE INCREASE.
Does anyone know if this sewer rate increase is part of the city’s annexation plan for the Charlestown road area? This area currently pays higher sewer rates since they are not in the city. If this area is annexed won’t these people then pay the lower city sewer rates? If the annexation occurs is there going to be another sewer rate increase down the road to cover the shortfall created from the annexed area or is the current rate increase taking that into account?
We don't know but are worried about it.
P.S. Adding to the history and referring to the Tribune article today. New Albany does NOT HAVE A CSO (combined sewer system). EPA ruled we did not have a CSO in 1992. Engineer was Al Goodman. The whole article is incorrect (sorry Daniel). We know you would not have know that but the Mayor surely does.
"The comment was directed at those business owners that resort to bashing, name calling, and making degrading remarks towards citizens of this community."
1) The business owners, too, are citizens of this community as well.
2) They are "bashed" far more often than the "citizens" they fire back at.
3) by "boycotting" the local businesses of these few individuals, you are not REALLY doing anything to the owners, IF you are having any negative effect, it is against the employees, not the owners.
So basically, you're hurting more "little people" than you are the business owners.
If we stop to think about it the people in the town have more in common than not.
We all want basic utilities at a reasonable fee. We all want to not have to worry about a basement full of human waste when it rains.
I could go on but I'm sure you get what I am saying.
If everybody could stop for a minute and quit calling each other names we might be able to work together and get something done.
We drove around and walked the creeks tracing out problems. (Yes we were careful when we were in the location of the Copperheads we heard about at a Sewer Board meeting).
What was Coffey doing down there?
The comment was directed at those business owners that resort to bashing, name calling, and making degrading remarks towards citizens of this community.
A masterpiece of nothingness.
Here you go again Roger, with your cheap shots and name calling. Stick to the issue. But then again you do not know jack shit about Sewers, EDIT, Tif's only about beer and getting discount liquor licenses amd entitlements.
It surely isn't a cheapshot to suggest that the answer I received was vague.
However, you took a stab at a few cheap shots at me. That's fine, but they were disappointingly weak ones. The riverfront three-way isn't reserved for me. Anyone can get one if he or she observes the rules.
And if you invest in downtown like Mike Wickliffe did, you might get a sidewalk, too.
What I know about EDIT is that it shouldn't be wasted to subsidize rates.
The reason why you'd like to see it used that way is because you think doing so will effectively cripple the city, and you may be right. But being right means punishing your grandchildren. You never thought about that, because after all, you're selfish, and if they had any talent, they'd move away from this place, right?
It't not about being a snitch, as Susan previously noted. It's about being so overcome with anger that you can't think straight. That's the legacy we need to dispel. I'm not holding my breath, but I'm doing what I can with what I have to make my corner an attraction.
Now, go and spend at Wal-Mart. Bentonville and Guangdong both thank you profusely.
Anon 7:10 that is a great point
Mrs. Baird that is a situation that will never come to fruition, ever; You would serve yourself and this community best by shutting down this den of lies
KIND OF SEEMS TO ME THAT THIS BLOG IS ALL ABOUT ATTACKING BAYLOR, CHRISTOPHER, AND IAMHOOSIER. TO: BAYLOR, CHRISTOPHER, AND IAMHOOSIER - THANK YOU, YOU THREE ARE THE ONLY ONES THAT REALLY SEEM TO KNOW WHATS GOING ON. I REALLY GET TIRED OF ALL THE BITCHING AND I AM SURE YOU ALL ARE TIRED OF CONSTANTLY HAVING TO DEFEND YOURSELVES.
SO HERE IS A BLOG TO YOU... GOOD JOB, I AGREE, AND KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK.
TO THE REST OF YOU THAT SEEM TO BE JUST LOOKING FOR SOMETHING TO BITCH ABOUT, GET A LIFE!
YOU CAN'T GET SOMETHING FOR NOTHING, IF YOU WANT SERVICES YOU HAVE TO PAY FOR THEM.
DON'T COMPLAIN ABOUT SNOWY UNPAVED STREETS AND PROPERTY TAXES IN THE SAME BLOG, DUH
AND I TOTALLY SUPPORT POLICE AND FIRE!!!
THANK YOU SHIRLEY, SEEMS LIKE YOUR TRYING TO DO A GOOD THING HERE.
YES I HAVE PROBABLY HAVE WORDS SPELLED WRONG AND SOME BAD GRAMMER IN THIS POST, BUT IF THAT IS ALL YOU HAVE TO COMPLAIN ABOUT DON'T WASTE YOUR TIME IT IS CHILDISH.
HAVE A GREAT DAY!!!
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