I attended a birthday party at the Knights of Columbus Hall last Saturday. Someone at the party had forgotten to purchase a gift bag and could not leave the party. She asked me to run this errand for her.
I started down Main St. toward downtown thinking it would be a quick trip. Why everybody sells wrapping paper and gift bags, right? Wrong. As I drove down Main St. and then State St. it occurred to me that we don't have a drug store or a card shop downtown at all. I ended up driving to the Dollar Tree for my purchase.
After returning to the party I had a discussion with another lifetime New Albany resident about the stores which we shopped in as children and young adults. We recalled W.T. Grant, Woolworth, Wallgreens, The Fashion Shop, The Joy Shop, even the Dollar General Store.
We need a "big box" store or at least a grocery store downtown. I'm not saying we need to put a Walmart on Pearl St. but we need some sort of store where a downtown resident could walk to for the purchase of an aspirin or a gallon of milk, or even a gift bag. We want people to live downtown and be able to walk to a store or restaurant. Many people are taking the risk to open a new business and I applaud them. But will someone or group of partners with means please open a "general store" where people can purchase the basic items for day to day use. The specialty stores are great but sometimes we just need a gift bag.
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281 comments:
1 – 200 of 281 Newer› Newest»Maybe you are on to something Shirley. If the resturants and bars fail downtown they can open a card and bag shop.
Too funny.
The sort of place you're seeking isn't quite the same as a big box, which we need downtown the way we need Steve Price as councilman -- not.
It's a chicken and egg thing. The residential/walking traffic isn't yet there. A place like Destinations might see a market in some of those things. So might a flower shop like Buds 'n' Blooms.
Supply and demand are funny things. When the entire council unanimously approves a riverfont development area, it means that inexpensive three-way alcohol permits become available. Maybe they need to decalre a tax abatement for a card/gift shop. Then Coffey could vote yes, and then later, criticize it.
怎樣思想,就有怎樣的生活
I believe that translates as, "thank you for shopping Wal-Mart."
Can we all agree with hating spam?
Good idea. My grandpa had a tiny litle store in the heart of downtown. Only opened 8 - 5, but I can see people here especially from government buying things so they do not have to shop at a larger store later. Good idea.
shirley you are truly a clueless wannabe
Off topic.
Can someone explain the 5-1 and the 2-1 ratio in developers?
I stand by what I said in the posting.
If we (the city) want people to move downtown we need to supply their basic needs. I just used gift bags as an example because that was what I needed. I could have said soap or toothpaste instead.
I do understand the law of supply and demand. I do believe there will be a market for a store that sells staples. Even the people who work out at the "Y" might stop on their way home instead of heading to State St. or Grantline Rd.
"If we build it they will come"
Shirley, you bring up a good point.
Did Mathes Drug Store come to mind? I'm not entirely sure but I think they would have had what you needed. They would have been just as near as downtown.
Maybe instead of trying to bring in someone from outside to downtown the Major's Administration should talk to Mathes Drugstore about relocating or opening up a second downtown store?
I would weigh in by saying that big box stores and chains killed what you were seeking downtown.
But there is indeed a need and a niche for such a place.
To often conversations such as this become a rallying point against the eateries and bars, but they too are filling a niche.
There are many businesses that could comfortably fit in downtown including:
1) dance and theater supply store
2) a real (not big box) photography store
3) small theater
4) a general store as mentioned in this posting
5) a hobbyist store that caters to more than arts (not knocking prestons, I love that store)
6) a non-big box computer and networking store
7) pet and pet supply store
But unfortunately, a small store can not efficiently compete against the buying a drawing power of the big box stores. Further I would submit that those who would consider opening a store like those mentioned above, have seen distain from the community towards the onwers and operations of those stores (beyond the distain voiced here for certain business owners)
For a long time now, when a business opened, it wasnt long before it was in the paper complaints about tables and chairs, easel type signs, building colors, hours, prices.
Now it is just expressed on the blogs, instead of the papers.
Just as a clarification. I did not necessiarly mean a national named store. I was appealing to anyone or group of investors to open a store which would fill a need.
I like the idea of Mathes Pharmacy opening a store downtown. I believe they could do a lot of business with people living, working and spending time downtown. It would be very convenient to stop in and pick up a prescription and maybe purchase other items while they were there.
And Mathes is a big enough business that they could charge competitive prices. I know that small stores could not compete in price for staple items.
When I mentioned the stores that Karen and I discussed I meant that we were just remembering when a person could buy practically anything downtown. As I said before, we don't need another Walmart, Kmart, Target or anything else like that.
Chris,
I think your ideas are right on target. And unfornately I know that some people object to these businesses.
We know that more people are moving downtown, so maybe the good ones will out number the bad ones and let these businesses thrive.
Anon 2:19
Thanks for the encouragement. What happened to your grandpa's store?
Baylor you and your snob retailer friends are the most delusional people ever to come along in your so called downtown rebirth, who comes to your overpriced eateries, bars and booksellers?
Like it or not without the "little people" your downtown wont make it. Eat at little chef and buy your books on amazon.com until you so called progressives understand we cant afford your prices, of course we all know your business was built on ex daddy in law's money and city tax dollars.
pathetic
ex daddy in law's money and city tax dollars.
If you really think that ex-daddy in law had that much, or that the city provided tax dollar sufficient to found a brewery, then apparently it takes one delusional to know another.
Except I'm not. I suppose you're alone in doofusland, then.
The somewhat free market as we enjoy in the US makes if possible for a wide range of goods and services to be offered at different levels of price and value. If customers exist, there is a chance for success. If not, then there isn't.
Now, if you or anyone else reading this would like to screw up your courage (unlikely), come see me, and sit down for a civil chat, I'll happily show you where our fincancing originated.
If you're not willing to do this, then I suppose you'll continue to tell lies, espouse Steve Price's version of egalitarian collective impoverishment, and delude yourself into believing you're part of the solution.
(Note -- isn't this your anonymous coward's cue to insult my family?)
"financing"
just like your coward way of insulting larry kocherts deceased friend Dick Stewart with your cheap shot distasteful comment about Larry at the council meeting with his still living buddies.
you talk out of both sides of your mouth
Anon,
please answer a simple question; Why is it acceptable for you to engage in such behavior, but if a select group of people say anything about anyone pretty much at all it is an unforgivable sin.
(I seriously want to know)
dont worry boys your party is over next year
Sorry, but that dog won't hunt. The thought of the deceased Mr. Stewart never crossed my mind until you brought it up. I kinda liked him, because he used to sign his name to his thoughts, at least most of the time -- and it would have been entertaining to see him run against Jeff Gahan in the 6th.
refresh your memory double talker you were for gahan until he got some balls and stood up to your buddy dougs sewer rate robbery.
you are for whoever furthers your own interests not whats best for the majority. we all know how you are, you hated gahan when he wouldnt cave in to your redistricting plan either.
its all about you isnt?
keep cheering for the sewer hikes maybe you will get a sewer exemption for bankstreet, after all we hear you dont have that many customers flushing the toilets down there
I said "entertaining," and I stick by that. A Stewart vs Gahan race would have provided plenty of giggles and some excellent theater. Back then, I'd have voted for Gahan, anyway.
But you're absolutely right that Gahan has since flipped over to the dark, troglodyte depths, and I agree that he acted despicably out of his own self-interest when he opposed redistricting.
Hmm, maybe the little people are paying him off, since that's what it's all about, right? Couldn't the little people just as easily pool their funds and buy off their politicians just like we progressives buy ours (or so it is so stupidly believed hereabouts)?
Ahh, I forget. The little people have never once made a mistake. They've always been holy, correct and righteous -- and it's always a conspiracy, or monied interests, or criminal elements, or a stab in the back, or something else, that causes everything to fall apart. Am I right?
I'm touched by your concern over my business. Yes, it's a tough economy. The jury's out on whether we make it or not, just like most businesses even in good times. Life's all confusing and weird and stuff, and you just can't simplify it into something a baby can understand.
I know you'll keep trying, though. Good luck.
http://www.newsandtribune.com/floydcounty/local_story_050211639.html
Are they being paid off too? Seems like any good news is bribery and shady deals to the folks with the red and white t-shirts
Shirley my grandfather's store thrived, until he passed it on to his son, my uncle, where it thrived also.
By the time you consider gasoline and time spent driving to the mega marts (much less time spent walking around) a little store packed to the gills at a slightly higher price can work.
People leaving the Y who need something really quick or people getting off work in downtown, I can see them stopped at such a place right in the heart of Main St possibly, nearer city county building and the Y.
My grandfather was a retired railroad worker when he opened this store so age doesn't matter folks. Thanks for asking Shirley.
The 5-1 versus the 2-1 ratio question isn't tooo hard to explain. The simplest way to understand is we (the City) have to remove 1 gallon of I/I (inflow and infiltration) from the sewers to get ONE sewer credit for developing. The cost to rate and taxpayers is 5 to 1 and the Developer's cost for obtaining the sewer credit is 2 to 1.
It was sad to read the story in the Tribune yesterday misleading an entire town into thinking we have a Combined Sewer System. I understand Daniel couldn't have know 1992's history but to have Carl M lead him on and encourage such a story is a downright insult to freedom of press and someone's career as someone strives to become a professional journalist. Shame on you Carl. The file so often mentioned found within the Federal Building will help in the future for double checking sources. Take care Daniel. I do not believe anyone accused the Tribune of anything regarding such story. I would not even want to guess Daniel's age (sorry) in 1992. Hang in there.
No, New Albanian, you are not right. Most concerned citizens do not consider our selves holier than thou, self righteous, etc. Now, if the shoe fits your foot so be it. Please, let the dead rest in peace. It's a new low.
When citizens are tired of an on going fiasco relating all the way back to 1987 when the current Mayor was head of the Sewer Board and are desperate to save OURSELVES, we need power and money to figure out what is going on and why the on going saga. Whatever it takes, bond holders, bond insurers, EPA, the State, whatever it takes. It isn't we want to see the City fail, they already have. Write the article you are writing New Albanian for the Tribune on Thursday and say it is because people want new albany to fail. I feel it will be a joke and maybe we all can use a good laugh. No offense intended, simply life's lessons.
I predicted the forensic audit was not going to happen. You too can be on the State's mailing list which informed local citizenry today IT IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. Why isn't it? Who the hey knows, YET?
It is not sitting well in my understanding of passing a piece of council legislation and it simply is not going to happen. I don't know if the deal was struck with police and fire to give them money in order to keep the books closed. It wouldn't make sense because this piece of legislation was not passed yet.
I'll wait and see because you know how people love to talk in New Albany and as someone said, every one's relatives work downtown. Sometimes I feel the City feels they are Peyton Place when in reality they are simply Harper Valley PTA.
Anon 3:46
You are right. I went back and checked and that should have been SSO, not CSO. I'm double checking again to be sure. That wasn't Maysz's fault. I pulled the document he forwarded and it has them marked as SSO's, the mistake is mine and once I confirm there will be a correction in the paper, likely Wednesday.
On the audit, I talked with Mr. Haub a few moments ago for a story and he said the unions are going forward with it, he was just disappointed the council didn't chip-in financially.
Thanks
And while you all scramble to gobble up the scraps Coffey and price toss you from their electoral tables, by playing into their games, you cost all of the people in this city more money. Money in man hours, money in salaries going to waste chasing their tails to try and keep you at least halfway quiet. Many of the same people saying not one red cent were many of the same people I remember being on the vanguard of the property tax changes. It was for the little people you all cried. It was for the relatives and neighbors you had then that you exclaimed told you would loose their house if the taxes were changed. And you managed to pull that one off and look at the mess we are in now. Schools funding being slashed, the states budget being slashed, and a lot of if from lack of revenue from property taxes. Many of you screamed for higher taxes and bans on tobacco usage, now the poorest people in town, who smoke the most and are addicted are paying more than ever.
Many of the same voices were against rental inspections, saying it would create an undue hardship on the poor landlords, which was a scrap from prices table. Now those properties are worse than ever and rent has gone up on families who do not have the credit to be able to move anywhere else. Many of you were against increasing code enforcement and our alleys are choked with broken down cars, piles of rotting wood, busted boats and trailers abandoned home that are used at the neighborhood dump now.
Tell us why should anyone listen to you people? Why should anyone give a snippet of attention from a bunch of disgruntled, disconnected, unhappy people who are always on the bitching and moaning end of every issue that comes down the pike in this city?
Misery loves company and your intentions are to ensure that you are all the belles of the ball with a vast guest list because you crave the attention. who gives a damn what you are doing to this city and the people in it, as long as you get your jollies from the long winded repetitive speeches you recycle over and over and over? Not you guys, because you get to go back to your homes on country club drive, and silver hills, and main street, while the majority of the rest of the city continue to dwell in substandard housing with gang banger want to bees destroying everything, selling drugs, stripping the pipes and wires out of peoples houses to by the ingredients to make meth. What do you all care? Nothing at all.
Now you want to attack people who make an honest living running honest businesses? If your sense of community is as low as your sense of responsibility for your actions then you all would serve the city best by keeping your mouths shut, leaving people alone and quit acting like a bunch of old horse just running around in a herd scream neigh to everything and everyone. Besides you have to at least have an idea that everyone in city hall think you are all nothing but a laughing stock, including the ones you think are on your side.
Anonymous 5:36
As Iamhoosier would say.. Cowardly and stupid, what a combination you are.
Is it not true that members of that particular organization were for property tax reform? Is it not true that most members of that group were against enhanced code enforcement, rental inspections, were for a smoking ban, and increased tobacco taxes? Is it not true that same organization is always complaining about take home police cars? Did they not support closing fire stations? Were they not against redistricting so that citizens of this city are equally and fairly represented as prescribed by state law? Ignorance in action speaks volumes, and the ignorant actions of that group speaks volumes. Now be sure to call me a name and not answer to what I have said, so your ignorance and immaturity even more, I implore you.
anonymous 6:09
As Christopher D would say ...I am now officially labeling you as a cowardly Arse
Lets see, a 70% increse or.....
a 56% increse...
then a 19% increase on the old rate and on the 56%.
then 3% for four years on the original rate---and the 56% and the 19%---well you see how it goes...much more than 70%
I do not care what Lamhoosier or Christopher D would say. I say your group is one of the biggest problems in this city. Of course you will not answer to what I have said either. So by your refusal I can take that as acknowledgement of those statements.
I will take all of the Baylors, Gillenwaters,Drakes,Cassidys,Nashs,Bairds,and bledsoesand on so on they at least in someway contribute to the city.unlike vicky, elizabeth,virginia, maurice,anna,yvonne and those likes all they do is bitch, never offer anything other than criticisms and threats. People are tired of hearing about the boxes of evidence,the secret tapes, people are tired of waiting for hours on end for asimple resolution to make it to the docket because we have to hear the same speeches over and over again,meeting after meeting.If you loudmouths have this evidence then bring it out call the states attorney general and get him down here,break it to the press. for years we have been hearing about how anyday you all are going to bring this person or that person down. But nothing ever happens, ever.
9:48 anon, spoken like a true city "servant". You have some names wrong in your little spiel. A couple of the people listed haven't spoken at any Council meeting and have not delayed any resolution making it to the floor for votes. Does that make you a fear mongerer?
BTW, Daniel, please tell Mr. Haub the resolution did not call for city money and if he felt this way he should have had Messer change the resolution. He is part of the Union, yes/no?
The sewer system had to come up with a plan to support a 100 year rain event. Have we experience this yet? Maybe we were all swept away and are still unaware.
Heck yes we want rental inspections and they were stopped, by the City and some real estate people, not taxpayers. How is the new Building person working out? Baylor promised he would back off his praise of everyone if he found out this person was not going to help us clean up our neighborhoods. What's going on? Who knows?
If asking the hard questions are getting to you, get out of the kitchen. You work for the citizens of this town and you will not find sympathy from most.
Expect a totally new Council with mostly Republicans and a more conservative attitude towards government and money; it is simply the way things are leaning.
I still believe the person toeing the line on the budget, though, will be reelected no matter how much you despise him.
You claim people are making your jobs harder? You are lucky you have one. Most don't, or do you not read the news or does it not affect New Albany? I can not understand the logic or the stance you are maintaining. And, I know you could care less, we all know that. Not being involved in the redistricting issue nor the smoking issue nor the property tax reform nor the closing of fire stations nor the layoff of police I just do not understand. I thought City Hall fought those battles; alas I must be wrong.
Good night and sleep tight.
5:36 Yell, we know it's all Bush's fault. Right?
6:09,What particular organization are you talking about?
9:48, What are you smoking? You sure like accusing others, but how come you never signed your own name?
Too funny.
Do as I say not as I do.
to 9:48 Anon,
You have grouped people together unfairly.
Some of the people who you say do nothing but complain have contributed much more to this city than you know.
Personally, I do not belong with any group. I try to attend meetings and offer suggestions any way I can but in no way have I made the contributions others have.
As I said before, we need to try to agree on SOMETHING and get this city moving in the right direction. Otherwise we will just have a decaying city and everybody blaming each other for the mess.
How in the blue blazes did I get dragged into this one? Did I leave a type of store out that would fit in downtown? :)
Anon 9:48
Assuming that you are the author of the other posts, as much as it pains me to say this, some you named were not involved in all of those issues.
You Mr. Drake got dragged into this when you turned into a coward yourself and quit being involved in this community because someone said bad things about you and your daddy. You had potential but gave into the pressure. You need to change your war cry to power to the sheeple. As far as me being a city servant I do not work for the city I never have and I never will. I am what you guys call a little person and you people who claim to be fighting for me are just making our lives worse.
"You People". I was wrong. You are not a fear mongerer; you are a HATER. I feel sorry for the anger you have in your soul and your heart. So much for the name calling Shirley. You are now finding out how people operate in this town simply because they became aware of your name.
This person doesn't even know what is going on in order to make a judgment call thus the names being mentioned who are part of no group. As you noticed, they can't even name the group.
I don't belong to any group so I can not care about the bile they carry.
I applaud you Mr. Jameson for standing up to Roger. You are now seeing what we all knew years ago, someone who thinks other people owe him something and another wannabe.
"Sheeple"
Wish I'd thought of that one. LOL.
I am a "Sheeple"?!
Ewe really know how to make a guy feel really BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH'd.
I guess I can't pull the wool over everyones eyes.
Hilarious, Chris.
But after all - "We all live in a Sewer Submarine, a Sewer Submarine, a Sewer Submarine."
Baaaaahh.
Jameson you hit the nail on the head in your post on that other so called blog. I'm sure you will become a target now of his non-stop bashing, name calling and all the other diaria that always comes pouring out of his mouth.
You are not alone. Their are many that are tired of his bile.
I don't mean to ram this down anyones throat, perhaps I am just a mutton for punishment, and I am sure I will be lamb-asted for this.
(okay it would be shear madness to continue to play the sheeple jokes)
but it would appear that Roger has offered an open invitation for Jameson to engage in a rational conversation.
Infact, I recall a certain passage where aside from different takes on a specific ancient author, Roger suggested they have more in common than appears on the surface.
So why try and turn this into something ugly?
"Bleating and babbling we fell on his neck with a scream.
Wave upon wave of demented avengers March cheerfully out of obscurity into the dream."
So why try and turn this into something ugly?
you would need to ask the New Albanian why he chooses to turn everything into ugly. Perhaps he will make a turn around and realize that constantly ridiculing and calling people names is not going to solve our problems. Really how many times does he have to bring up the name price,king larry, denhart? come on we already know how he feels about them. enough is enough.
Anon 7:00pm
May I humbly ask you then, how many times do other factions have to call others names, bring up Roger, Mark, Myself, Mr. Smith.
We all know how they feel about us as well.
Do you have any suggestions to end the tit for tat?
If nothing else, Roger has tried to open a dialog with Jameson, and Jameson has tried to respond in kind. Can we not at least wait to see how that develops before casting such remarks?
I can picture Jameson being quite capable of participating in a mature rational discussion. But sheeple's are you serious about thinking Roger is capable of doing the same? I'm sure Roger's open invitation is just to spew diaria of the mouth at him.
Roger, Mark, Chris, Mr. Smith if you would turn the cheek, walk away, not participate in the name calling, in other words, grow up yourself, then that should drastically reduce the tit for tat. It is just as bad when you all do the name calling as when anonymous do. The difference though is that you all leave no doubt in peoples mind who the immature ones are since you proudly post your names to it.
I'm encouraged by the attitude of suppport being shown at this blog. Here's a teaser from the Thursday column.
One is “fifth column,” defined as “a group of people who clandestinely undermine a larger group, such as a nation from within, to the aid of an external enemy” (Wikipedia). The other, which also suggests equal elements of active participation in bringing about defeat, and eager cooperation with a victorious enemy, is “Quisling.”
J - I am going to lay this out for you because no one else will because they don't want to be mean.
You come off in person like an arrogant know it all prick. You blab on and on in meetings and monopolize speaking time. You pretend like you are an expert in anything you have ever read a book about (Socrates ring a bell?) This turns a lot of people off. A LOT.
Everyone knows you mean well but you seem oblivious to how full of sh*t you sound. On the flip side, everyone knows you are smart and that you mean well.
Some friendly advice - tone down the ego - shut your mouth and listen more and stop trying "show" how smart you are all of the time.
I know that was mean but you need to hear it if you are going to really contribute. Don't waste your potential making enemies.
How come they left my name out? I'm one of the little people too.
Hey Shirley! I met you tonight at the Historical Society.
I agree, we need some places to shop downtown. I DO try to shop downtown as I go walking downtown at least once a week.
We're so limited. We have antique malls [which I love] and a few specialty stores. It's time for some new places for us to spend our money!
I read a blog of a woman that did wonders for her downtown in Illinois [that was struggling just like ours]. She now owns TWO businesses downtown. One is home decor and the other is a little bit of everything. She's doing well and its helped the rest of the downtown grow.
Chris has great ideas on what we need downtown. A theatre would be awesome! Actually, love all his ideas.
Nice meeting you tonight Shirley!
-April [sorry if my head was in your way haha!] [and yes, I love to speak in brackets!]
J,
I have never met you but, I have heard from good people you are a good peep.
Always courteous, always kindly asking people you know have information and receiving same in order for education purposes.
This happens to ANYONE who dare, and I mean dare, to question or debate the wrong crowd (if you know what I mean).
Hang in there. You are doing just fine in my books.
Simply take care.
April,
It was great meeting you too, and no your head was not in my way. lol
Pam Peters did a great job last night with her talk. And I plan to buy her book.
(Pam is the secretary of the Floyd County Historical Society and she wrote a book in 2001 about the Underground Railroad here in New Albany. Should be fascinating reading.)
Shirley,
Yes she did. I learned a lot last night and I *should have* taken notes. Because this morning things aren't coming back to me. haha
Pam Peters is someone I really admire. Her passion just oozes out of her, which is wonderful!
I plan on buying her book as well. Thought about it, but it's $50! Cripes! Worth it, yes. So eventually it'll happen. Also I want to buy that book about crimes that happened here in New Albany back in the day.
-April
PS~ Thanks for being nice!
Anon 7:38
I agree, at least on my part, that I should tone it down some, I do fire back after a while, and yes it is immature of me at times, and I do regret some of the poets I had made, but I leave them up for the most part and take my beatings.
But we ALL need to try and work together. I doubt it will happen though.
I can only speak for myself, and will only attempt to do so, and I will try to do better. However, that being said, there are a few on here, and everyone has a pretty good idea who they are, that will stop at nothing to continue to slander, harrass, intimidate, and try to ruin the reputations of people simply because they do not like us personally for one reason or another, despite what good we have done, continue to do, and will continue to do for the community as a whole.
As far as the theater, I have always thought it would be wonderful to have a small theater downtown. whether it hosts small stage productions, musical acts, or even play classic movies. The ampitheater is nice, but we got rained out down there several times last year, and an open air venue is only good a few months out of the year!
Anon 8:19p.m
You criticism is well taken.
I don't know about talking a lot at meetings. I usually listen and I will ask questions afterwards.
And yes I will ask a lot of question and probably to the annoyance of others.
To my defense there have been many topics on here and other blogs or in meetings that I have never said anything. Ex. Health care. I have my opinions but they are not supported enough to make any claims.
The only reason I may sound egoistical is because I have a deep desire to learn. My method is asking question and offering my point of views so the other person understands where I’m coming from. Only then can someone recognize the disconnect. Most people don’t do this and that is why I ask a lot of questions. I know some people me perceive this as trying to prove them wrong but if you understand me, I am trying to prove myself wrong.
I haven't came up with a different strategy to quickly lean for others but I am continuingly trying to evolve and improve.
Anon 3:03
Thanks
The main thing is if anyone would ask me a question I attempt to go above and beyond to answer them.
It is the golden rule
Do unto others as you would have done to yourself.
"To my defense there have been many topics on here and other blogs or in meetings that I have never said anything. Ex. Health care. I have my opinions but they are not supported enough to make any claims. "
Completely off topic, Jameson, but whilst browsing online the other evening I had found a photo of healthcare reform protestors carrying lovely signs, the first sign read:
" Dont steal from my medicare to pay for socialized health care"
The second said "keep goverment out of my medicare"
Those pics have been printed and are hanging in my office~
Christopher,
RE: the Medicare signs. I love it.
RemC, May I ask you, knowing you have made inquiries, etc., how you feel about TIFs now? We still feel TIFs are crippling the General Fund, especially 10 of 'em and wonder how you shook out on them.
Don't worry. I am not one of those who will bite you no matter how you feel! I do know you have made a serious effort to understand them and wanted to know. If you do not want to respond publically on here, no one would understand that more than me.
Christopher D., with the clinic in NA, I was told I needed outpatient surgery within weeks to have a precancerous thyroid taken out, not months, but weeks. I still have not been able to accomplish this as I am STILL waiting on the hunk of money owed to me legally. Does your clinic handle such things or does my Dr. need to call you (Highlander)? Thanks for taking the time to respond.
Both of you, hang in there. Glad to see you both practice what you preach and eager to learn. Thanks for that!
Thanks anon 1:33
I haven't made much headway since the last time I talked about TIF on here. I was surprised about how much money was in some TIFs I saw on the audit.
The questions I have now are:
How long has the money taken to accumulate?
Does the yearly increase exceed the general tax levy?
Our general fund is roughly 12 million, so any yearly TIF increases would have to be greater than 600,000 to justify some of their use.
The only other use I see is a bonding tool but loaning money comes with risk that we are all well aware of currently.
That is why I think looking at alternatives to fund the EPA mandated sewer upgrades using other means should be considered.
ChristpoherD,
I totally agree!
We ALL need to work together. Its the only way things will get done.
Big people, little people, we're all people.
Want change? Make it happen!
Last comment was made by me, April. Sorry, forgot to sign *oops*
no rate increase no way, this sewer board has pissed away money, kept the citizens and council in the dark and failed in their duty to keep the finances in order , best thing to happen is let the state take it over.
best thing to happen is let the state take it over.
Didn't Marshall Petain say that in 1940?
can tif money be used for sewer upgrades if the upgrades are done in a tif district. there are so many tifs in na surely some of these sewer projects occur in them. also some people are reluctant to use edit money but wouldnt sewer upgrades be a form of economic development for na. as it is now who would want to move or locate a business in na with all the sewer problems and with the rates we may soon have.
Anon 1:33 pm
Please contct me at my "offcial" email christopher.drake@clarkmemorial.org
I will be more than happy to discuss possible options for assitance with you. Understand that, in situations like this I do not care what your politics are, or anything, and any and all information will be kept strictly confidential as required by HIPAA laws.
To the folks here who do not like me, I ask that you respect that email address as ONLY a link to help those who need medical assistance, and please respect that, if not for me personally for those in the community that need help. Any junk, spam, or malicous emails only take away time from those in need. Thank you
1. Where will New Albany get the $1.5 million for Greenway?
2. Why is Bob Ceasar asking for about $83,000 for new trash cans from Riverboat?
3. Why does the city council need a full time council attorney?
Thank you CD.
Another slam on my councilman (Price) in today's Tribune. It is OBVIOUS Roger only cares about downtown and nothing else. Maybe businesses need to pay more than my mother does who lives on Spring Street.
He makes everything personal and is less affective in his attacks.
Can anyone actually believe the local newspaper pays him for his personal venom!
Yes, I know he is entitled to his opinion, but he calls what he writes journalism!
I call it a personal vandetta to my councilman and for all the little people he is fighting for.
My family did not have a 130 acreas in GEORGETOWN to sell, did yours?
Maybe England needs to let the rate payers vote if we want to use all of our EDIT, TIFS AND everything else for our sewers.
You know and I know that will never happen.
Now Greenways wants our $1.5 half. Did any one read today's CJ? They're yalking about closing schools in New Albany. Doesn't that send our council a message.
We can't afford paying teacher's these big salaries just like our police and fire.
Everyone is pricing themselves out of a job.
8:34,
Oh, you poor baby. It's always someone else's fault, isn't it?
By the way, my dad started out as a sharecropper. Just in case you were interested.
Another slam on my councilman (Price) in today's Tribune.
I merely ask why it's such a good idea to subsidize rates with economic development monies for years and years to come.
He makes everything personal
As though your post isn't personal against me? Isn't that slightly hypocritical?
Can anyone actually believe the local newspaper pays him for his personal venom!
You're right. I'm criminally underpaid. The pay is approximately 1/3 what it's worth.
Yes, I know he is entitled to his opinion, but he calls what he writes journalism!
I call what I write a "column," which by its very nature is the expression of a viewpoint. What reporter Daniel does is journalism.
I call it a personal vandetta to my councilman and for all the little people he is fighting for.
I call his proposals a personal vendetta against the city itself. Insofar as that's damaging, it surely damages me and my family.
My family did not have a 130 acreas in GEORGETOWN to sell, did yours?
It's entirely irrelevant, being another personal attack against me, but try to listen, just for once: Your statements are incorrect. "130" is incorrect. "Sold" is incorrect. Even if the statements were true, what does it have to do with anything other than envy on your part?
That sounds fairly Communistic to me, but hey -- so does most of what Steve Price proposes.
Maybe England needs to let the rate payers vote if we want to use all of our EDIT, TIFS AND everything else for our sewers.
If people five hundred years ago would have voted, "the earth is flat" would have come away a very big winner, wouldn't it?
Hell Roger, everyone knows your a Communist. Who are you trying to kid.
Didn't Oprah once say: If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck - it's a duck?
Btw, how has Councilman Price damaged your family and business?
This I got to hear.
Please share this with us hatemongers.
Too funny.
500 years have nothing to do with this sewer rate debate and EDIT.
Come on Roger, you will have to do better than that.
Why shouldn't EDIT be used for lowering our sewer rate?
Let's debate the real issue.
He can't debate you anonymous, because England hasn't given him the answers and reasoning.
Calling all potty police members it's time to have a real debate.
Can I keep score?
My exact words: "Insofar as that's damaging, it surely damages me and my family."
My personal and business future is about living and working in a city that's eductaed, functional and modern. Conversely, Steve Price advocates the policies of cave living, Neanderthal-style. That's incompatible. So be it.
But I explain myself all the time. You don't.
In the paper today, I gave three reasons why Price's policies resemble those associated with Communism. I based this on having witnessed it first hand.
You say I'm a Commie? Cool.
Let's test your extensive knowledge of Communism. Other than spouting tired aphorisms like the duck walk, offer up some reasons why I'm a Communist.
I'll give you a few.
"He puts Commie pictures on his brewing tanks."
"He has a room painted red with more Commie pictures on the wall."
"He reads books."
Now, please. Add to our knowledge.
That's a good one. A debate is better than a duel. You couldn't miss him on that one.
To: The New Albanian, since you have all the answers on EDIT, present your facts and we will present our facts and let's have an honest, real debate over Sewers and EDIT Funds. Are you game?
Sure. Shall we do it at BSB? No, wait -- that's too progressive. Tell you what. You name the place and time.
And: Check masks at the door.
Now, gotta go to work. Have fun being anonymous until I get back.
IF I may weigh on this, with the disclaimer, I do not want any higher fees for sewers:
In regards to why we shouldnt use edit funds to subsidize the sewer rates to keep them low, isnt it a STATE law the users fees have to be equal to or greater than the operational cost of a public utility?
We are part of city, a community, and as such we expect certain services from our city, we have to pay for those services. Until they invent poop-away spray, its a needed utility, and it falls on us to pay for those services.
I know Maurice King provided some numbers, but remember when I called similar sized cities in Indiana? Even WITH a 70% increase, we would still be below the average bill.
With the entire 70% increase on sewage, my bill would have went up a whopping $8.92 per month.
Try not to forget, WE control how much we pay monthly for sewage based on the amount of water we use.
The old lady neighbor who lives by herself on a fixed income would actually see the smallest increase in fees.
Please realize that businesses do not pay EDIT. Basically it's workers and some retired persons if they have enough income. That means that it is the working people(including the little people, if you will)that would be paying ALL of the rate increase if you use all the EDIT. Kroger would not. McDonalds would not. Home Depot would not. Bank Street Brewery would not. No business would be paying more. The people outside of NA, who on our sewers, their EDIT dollars bascially don't to come to the city(county)so they would not be paying higher rates either. Just the people in New Albany.
lets use Edit to give roger more free sidewalks and whatever else he wants
As long as you're saying the same thing to Zrick Fox, Larry Ricke, Mike Smith, Mike Wickliffe and the whole roster of sidewalk "recipients," then that's just fine. You guys boycotting them, too?
Dont forget FHC in Floyd COunty, we got 6 feet of new sidewalk last spring!
way to save money, let roger the billy goat eat the weeds this summer on his free sidewalk instead of having the street dept. weed eat, maybe some ditches too could help save taxpayers money and pay for a few sewers
For the adoring public, please remember that Roger, Myself, Mark, Randy, and Jeff were recently admonished for engaging in name calling and stone throwing, and how immature and child like such behavior was and how we should be kinder and turn the other cheek.
BSB no way, so you can make a profit off the debate. "No way!"
How about picking five people for using EDIT and Five to not use EDIT.
We can do it on line here.
First we all need to admit we have a severe sewer issue.
2nd, whose to blame.
3rd, how do we solve the issue.
4th, let's come up with a viable solutions.
Deal or no deal?
Roger should start by stating why we should not use EDIT!
Name a DATE/TIME and all parties will be on line.
Deal or no deal?
Since it's Shirley's Blog, let her delete any uncalled remarks.
Let's put all the information and facts out on the blog.
No way.
We do it in person so we can see the whites of each other's eyes.
The PROBLEM is the anonymity. We meet in the same room, or not at all. Otherwise, your terms are marvy.
If there is "fault", for whatever reason, we would just be compounding it by using EDIT. If you can prove "fault", by all means do it.
Why would you want to let so many users of the sewer system off the hook? Some of them would be huge users.
You cannot debate sewers, without discussing, TIF's, Police, Fire and EDIT.
You cannot debate sewers, without discussing, TIF's, Police, Fire and EDIT.
teacher's these big salaries...
Just because you flip burgers at Burger King doesn't mean everyone else is overpaid.
EDIT's already in sewers. How has that worked out? Even if you put every penny of EDIT into the sewer fund, it wouldn't eliminate rate increases in the future. The TIF thing is also overblown. It's capturing the percentage of increment after the TIF is declared, the original property tax, the majority of the whole tax, still goes to the same place it went before.
The TIF improvements then help the property values of surrounding areas that aren't in the TIF, so the General Fund gets that extra money.
Face it people. You wanted property tax reform and this is the result. You either are going to lose services or you're going to have to raise another tax.
New Albany has so much potential, but you know what? It's not the "little people" and the "no" crowd that's fully keeping it from progressing. It's the affluent, well-educated people here that just don't care anymore, or ever, that are turning a blind eye and letting a small majority speak for the whole city. We fight wars to give other countries freedom and we get what, 20 percent voter turnout for local elections? It's hypocritical. Our country is now nothing but a bunch of whiners, all of us. Afraid to look in the mirror and take any responsibility. Council people blaming the media and administration for not getting them the numbers when they get paid 10k a year to oversee this stuff. Where's their accountability? They can get records easier than anybody. Why haven't they? Because they don't want to take responsibility. Who setup the sewer board the way it is now? The council.
It is true the Council passes all the ordinances that change the make up of the sewer boards and other laws (Wasn't this the fourth time the makeup of the sewer board has changed in 15 years?).
But do you honestly believe the Council decides how to run the city?
There are strong arms shown to Council members and others to suggest they better do something a certain way. Ask them (past and present).
Anything illegal? Of course not, no way, no proof, etc.
Why do you think only about 20% of people vote? Die hard old timers who value and fought for the right to vote, turn out. But for the rest - I have heard some of them say - not voting is a vote of no confidence and a vote of disgust - not even worth the effort - hey politicians, do you GET the message?!
Haven't you ever heard a politician tell you one thing and do exactly the opposite when elected?
Whiners? No, they're Protesters!
I think this was the FIFTH time the make up of the Sewer Board changed in 15 years, but who is counting.
It's an excuse for being lazy. A room full of people makes all the difference, because at the end of the day, we put people in office. We are their boss. By showing no confidence, we give politicians a blank check to do whatever they want. When no one watches, votes, keeps track, why would politicians care? Plus we have more influence on our local government than anything.
Plus I just don't buy the whole strong arm thing. Are council people so chicken that they're scared of being bullied over a 10k a year job? Who cares? Get up and tell it like it is and find the truth. This isn't Russia, the people aren't going to stand for bullying unless the politician has dirt on themselves they don't want to expose.
"the people aren't going to stand for bullying unless the politician has dirt on themselves they don't want to expose".
You think that is what is going on in New Albany???!!!
Now who was it that told me years ago that New Albany was known as Little Chicago?
ACORN!!!
For clarification - the ordinances of HOW the sewer board was made up (and other provisions) were changed five times in 15 years, not just the names of the appointees.
That's fine, but how can a council member really blame the sewer board? They are both part-time, and council people are paid much more. Ron Carroll told them last year they needed to raise rates, and they basically ran him out of town. So yes, the council should have been aware this was coming. Acting like they were blindsided is again shunning responsibility. Price has said for months a rate increase was coming. Why didn't he start pulling documents then? Why didn't all the council after they were told by Carroll last year of the rate increase? England doesn't deserve a free pass either. Anybody that has taken a position of leadership with the city has blood on their hands in this. Sure, there are legitimate excuses but at the end of the day, they are just that, excuses. You may have had x y and z to take care of but you forgot about w and it's come back to bite you.
$5.2 borrowed from sanitation and sewers for our general fund in the 80's (Doug) never paid back. Overton spend over $40 million on sewers, fines and refinaced bonds. $186,000 missing from sewer fund when she took office. Garner screws with EPA and refinances bonds. England tells everyone turn off your cable and pay a higher sewer rate and if you don't like it move out of New Albany. Recent fesability shows $70,000 taken from sewers to cover General Fund. $3 million misappropriated 2008 audit. Garry claims $5.2 million paid back in 2004 (another lie). England states this is a real surprise he had NO idea.Police & Fire want $1.8 million. Greenway needs part of the $1.5 million. Doug wants a $12 million Parking Garage. Main Street wants a Quiet Zone. Progressives want every nickel of EDIT spent on Development and downtown. England votes to cut the $450,000 owed down to $25,000 and throws us rate payers under the bus.
All this is documented and should all be looked at.
I say tar and feather all their asses and prosecute them all!
Prove me wrong if you can.
As a citizen, I thank you from the bottom of my heart for the dose of reality so eloquently stated.
The best way I have ever seen the facts stated.
Knowing you even left out some (because you probably could have wrote a book) I admire your words and wisdom and knowledge re the BIG PROBLEMS in New Albany.
Thank you.
Shirley, to think this blog article started about a "gift bag/box"! New Albany CANNOT do Redevelopment without basic, necessary INFRASTRUCTURE no matter how many wish weren't so.
Citizenry seem to be extremely educated (plus becoming more and more educated). Thank you for providing the space.
Anon 9:25. It's important that you understand, no one has to prove your wrong. You have to prove you are right.
6:04 am. You are in denial. It's out there in black and white. You just got to dig through England's BS! Yes, I left a lot out. But hey, I got to make a living and cannot spend all day and all night blogging off and on like others do here.
Stay tune more will be coming down the pike on here, in public meetings as well as letters to the Editor.
Check out the upcoming Letter (might be in Tribune this weekend) to the Editor by Tim Deatrick.
It seems like we are not the only ones pist off and fed up with local government lies and "WE DO" have the facts in writing.
Blame it on EPA so it justifies England's incompetence!
Today's Tribune: Mayor having sewer board meeting @4pm for rate history and transparency.
Question: Why didn't they make it @ 7pm so the public could get off work, feed their family and come and see them put out more lies.
For god sakes, Marinaro is not even a licence engineer!
x,y and z - w = kickbacks.
Thank you Councilman Price for warning council for month's, they didn't listen but you did.
We all saw this train wreck happening before it did.
Anon 7:57,
I agree, if the Mayor wanted to be sincere he would have made the sewer board hold a special meeting a few days prior to the March 11th meeting. Someone may say that the Mayor can't make everyone happy, but this move, although in the right direction, seems insincere.
It would have been perfect if the Tribune was able to report that the Mayor ordered the sewer board to hold special meeting at 7:00pm March 4th one week before the rate hike meeting.
Again, I say Bledsoe, if England had nothing to hide he should also open the sewer books.
I suggest you print out the 2008 audit.
Regardless what England states, the devil is in the details and what's so damn scary is it was only a small part of looking at the books.
What did Garry hide from the State Board of Accounts, who by the way has NO authority to do nothing.
England doesn't want enough time for us citizens to speak or ask questions. He's only wanting to control what the sewer board says. Trust me, England is NO dumb ass. He had 8 years to figure out how to pull all this off.
So it's up to us who have the facts to keep putting it out there.
Boycott the Tribune
England's just like Obama, he's trying to ram this sewer rate increase right down our throats and cover his own ass. I'm with you open the sewer books.
its just another dog and poney show, same old story, England is full of shit and so is his sewer board
you serving "The Mayors Brew" down there for the sewer lies Baylor cause the only way people will believe them is to be drunk off their ass.
Such language.
Are you one of them mad as hell teabagger types?
Nope, no mayor's brew. Sorry.
"Ron Carroll told them last year they needed to raise rates, and they basically ran him out of town. So yes, the council should have been aware this was coming. Acting like they were blindsided is again shunning responsibility."
how can the council be responsible for the sewer board spending more money than what they had avaiable? it looks more like the sewer board shunned their noses at the council and rate payers by ignoring their responsibility of stay within their budget and created this mess.
I agree, the Mayor needs to be more forthcoming with the public concerning the sewer rates. The less information people have the more frightened they become. 70% is a big number, even 36% is also a big number. Maybe the Tribune should do an article demonstrating how much a household's sewer rate would increase for different increments of usage.
BTW I did not delete any comments because of language but if it is not cleaned up they will be deleted.
shirley, according to the tribune the sewer rate increase consists of
36% in 2010
O% in 2011
19% in 2012
3% in 2013-2016
if a household average sewer bill now is $65.00 then this will be what their bill would look like with the rate increase
2009 - 65.00 average bill
2010 - 88.40 with a 36 % increase
2011 - 88.40 with 0% increase
2012 - 105.20 with 19% increase
2013 - 108.35 with 3% increase
2014 - 111.60 with 3% increase
2015 - 114.95 with 3% increase
2016 - 118.40 with 3% increase
actual total increase from 2010 to 2016 = 82% or a total of $53.00 more per month in 2016 over their current bill of $65.00
Question: What happens when Georgetown is off sewers and England annexation of Charlestown Road?
Answer: Rate payers are screwed again. Are rates go up even more.
Am I wrong?
If EDIT comes out of my weekly paycheck, why don't I have a right to say what it's used for?
only roger has the right to say how edit can be used.
Anon 2:02 thanks for the info. It was even worse than I thought.
But by not setting the rates to cover the expenses, think about how much money we're losing in interest payments.
You can't compare now to then. The economy sucks...it impacts so much and sewer use is def. one. Cutbacks have 30 employee companies cutting down to 10, and that's 20 fewer people flushing the toilet a day. Think about it.
3:40 losing money on interest payments? now that a new one i haven't heard of. can you explain?
By not having money to pay for the projects, we've had to borrow for sometime. Even with low interest it still adds up. Maybe in a way this is good. Sewer can't take on anymore debt and we have to pay as we go. Sucks now, but it keeps future generations from being riddled with debt.
the utility will be taking on new debt with the rate increase. some where around $7,000,0000
future generations will continue to be riddled with even more debt
oops $7,000,000
Right, while there will always be some debt, no doubt the $54 million in bonds we owe is connected to not having enough cash flow to take care of projects.
all the bonds have been for sewer projects and the sewers are still not fixed. that is why some have become very disgruntled because they feel with that amount of money the sewers should be fixed by now.
2:02 PM:
When figuring those numbers be SURE that the final number is based ONLY on the sewage fees, NOT the entire bill.
The increase will not be based on the entire amount of the bill.
(because I posted that does not mean I want a rate incease, I just think its important to understand that only a portion of our monthly bill is for sewage rates, and that portion is what would see the increase)
82% total SEWER increase from 2010-2016. take your current SEWER charge multiply it by 82% that will be how much more you will be paying in 2016.
increase in trash fee can be seen on this months bill.
THe numbers posted by 2:02 pm equal a 67% increase.
I average 4000 gallons of water usage a month, which costs an average of $25 per month (my bills are right here on my desk) $25 x 67% is a $16.75 increase over the next 6 years. (not all at once, and in the next 6 years, by factoring in general inflation that still will not be that bad)
If you further that math, and divide that $25 per month by the 4000 gallon average, my household pays 0.00625 cents per gallon of water used for sewage.
Put this into perspective please, consider that you are paying $2.65 a gallon for gas, $3 a gallon for milk.
The poop has to go somewhere, and again we are required by state law to pay equal to or greater than the operational costs of the public utility.
(disclaimer, again I do not want an increase, but it could be much much much worse)
I understand that frustration, but Jeff has spent much much more and there sewers still aren't fixed either. We live in a low-lying, flood prone community. When we get big rains like last year, SSO's will pop up. The EPA doesn't care, they say we have to fix them all rain, snow or shine. But I'll agree with you, I'm sure not all the projects have been 100 percent successful, but I doubt seriously that accounts for the majority of the needed rate increase.
Or if I may interject this thought, there is so much anger over this proposed increase in the city operated utility, but where is the anger over being taxed $5 per month for rain? (dis we get a credit when we were in a drought, no)
Where is the anger over Indiana-American water company charging us $4 a month in a fire hydrant maintainence fee (I have a hydrant on my lot and they "fluch it once a year for 3 minutes or so)
Where is the anger at the water company for a $1.44 per month distribution improvement fee, or the $2.64 a month surcharge for having a meter?
Private companies that control our utilities charge us all they want, and tack on all kinds of surcharges but there has been no uprising against them. How much of this anger is simply because it is our local government?
We pay out as much or more in surcharges and taxes on utilities that we "have" to have each month as this rate increase will be in the next 6 years. And yet there is not anger and outrage over that
WARNING: There is a poster on here that does not know basic arithmetic.
you can take 36+19+3+3+3+3 and it will equal = 67 but that is not how it works with a step rate increase. It compounds.
again with an average SEWER bill of $65.00 with the 36% increase it makes it $88.40 with the next 19% increase it is on top on the new $88.40 making it 105.20 then the following year it is 3% on top of the 105.20 and so on. by year 2016it will have gone up to $118.40 which equates to an 82% increase.
($118.40 - $65.00)/65 = 82%
Are you smarter than a 5th grader? You do the math and decide.
Okay, even if it IS compounded with a step rate, and lets say your average bill for JUST SEWAGE ALONE (no trash, no storm water)
If your bill averages $65 per month for JUST sewage, based on my charge for using just over 4000 gallons of water last month, that puts you using 10,400 gallons of water per month.
Let me repeat that, your figures are based on using 10,400 gallons of water per month.
Unless you have a massive family, you are WASTING water, and causing an increase in your sewage bill on your own.
The state wide average family size in Indiana in 2005 was 2.98 per household, (IE mine, so based on your figures, and the hard facts in front of me on my water bill and city services bill, if that would mean each person would have to use 3489.93 gallons per month.
That is controllable, and you CAN offset the increases by DECREASING your water usage.
82% no matter what your bill is.
well then how would that effect the little old lady who lives by herself with those trumped up numbers? Nothing like trying to use fear tactics.
5:48 - I'm smarter than a 5th grader and obviously smarter than Christopher D.
It is a prime example of Mr. Know It All stupidity.
"82% no matter what your bill is"
Would you rather pay an 82% increase on a $25 or $30 per month charge now, or on a $65 or $70 per month charge?
Hmmmmm... Perhaps a little personal accountability for water consumption could go a long long long way, doesnt it?
Have fun guys, I'm going down to the Caumet club to support my board member running for state senate.
Accountability is needed from downtown. Not by citizens having to flush only after their second bowel movement.
2:02 More of England's fuzzy math.
those poor folks outside of the city pay 1.5 times more than those in the city so they are looking at
2010 - 54%
2012 - 28.5%
2013 - 4.5%
2014 - 4.5%
2015 - 4.5%
2016 - 4.5%
Outside city limit customers will see a total increase of 136%
(if your not smarter than a fith grader you would say it was just 100.5%)
" Accountability is needed from downtown. Not by citizens having to flush only after their second bowel movement."
You completely either missed the point of refused to acknowledge the point.
YOU are in control of how much water you use per month. Which directly effects how much you pay for sewage.
An example would be the "$65" per month sewage charge listed earlier.
If an average household is using 10,600 gallons of water per month, they are putting an extrordinarly large burden on the system.
(for the record that is roughly the same amount of water in a swimming pool 24' across by 4 foot deep every single month)
The people that these comments are being directed at, such as the old lady previously mentioned, will never use that much water in a month no way no how, that would be 353.33 gallons per day on a 30 month. That is NOT a second bowel movement, that would be 220.8 flushes per day with a 1.6 gallon per flush toilet. If thats the case the little old lady will not have to worry about her bill, she will be dead from pooping to death.
These figures, while mathmatically correct, are very unrealistic, and as such they are not truthful, and are trying to sway people to get all bent out of shape on hyped up figures. And that is something that people need to know.
The point has been stated over and over again the number to be looking at is 82% for in city customers and 136% for outside city customers by 2016. You can take any number you want and it still equates to the same percentage. It was never stated that the average bill in na is $65.00. It stated IF your average bill were.
Again....82% and 136% twist it turn it anyway you want those are the true percentages that it works out to.
I got a $.90 Indiana American Water bill today. Go figure that one out.
And NO I do not plan to call them either.
The people that these comments are being directed at, such as the old lady previously mentioned.....
Yea, bet there are a lot of little old ladies reading this blog... LOL
Come on! Readers supporting THIS blog do not believe in the numbers, the Admin, the books, etc.
Cut through to the chase. I WOULD NOT attend Doug England's "special" meeting. Save it for the Public Hearing.
Attending a Sewer Board meeting and James Garner being Mayor, there were two women in the front row who I now recognize as the NAPP (New Albany Potty Police). One's question went to Mayor Garner asking him if he realized the monthly book (located in YOUR libary) any page was wrong, any fact was wrong, he was signing a document saying EVERYTHING in the document was true and if he wasn't (really if EMC wasn't) HE, HE went to jail. I noticed he leaned back in his chair and his head hit the wall behind him. He couldn't believe what he was hearing.
Mr. Greg Fifer came into the room (Sewer Board Attorney at the time) and Mayor Garner told him what one of those two broads said. Mr. Fifer "welled" him. "Well, ....", Well,,,," Yet, I noticed Mayor Garner didn't catch on to Mr. Fifer "welling" him. The two broads in the front row who threw the question at him were saying "he is welling him", "he is welling him",.
As I witnessed that I can now say I WOULD NOT attend Mayor England's and Mr. Fifer's special meeting, timed before people are off work and only to perpetuate what the two broads off the street (I use them as an example) already know. WELL......
Save your breath, your time, your money, and your voice for the TRUE PUBLIC HEARING.
Some people are in TOO deep trying to make sense of issues now.
SAVE YOUR BREATH. ONLY ATTEND PUBLIC HEARING. Only advice as a contractor attending sewer board meetings can advise. That's the way I think. Think whatever. "WELL"????
My bill was $10 last month a 70% increase would make it $17.
I think you guys with the $65 sewer bills are full of s@#t
Do you live in a hole?
Anon 1:10 AM: "My bill was $10 last month"
Are you never home? Maybe you are single and visit a certain someone. Maybe your water meter doesn't read correctly. Better get that checked.
Anon 1:10 AM "My bill was $10 last month a 70% increase would make it $17. I think you guys with the $65 sewer bills are full of s@#t"
Sounds like your the one full of s@#t
Go ahead, let it out and take a s@#t while it is still cheap for you! If the 70% increase goes into effect it will cost you $7 more a month to take that s@#t.
Probably an empty house paying the minimum bill; sounds more like it.
Looks like Doug can't blame it on Jimmy. This is Doug's big nightmare.
IMPEACH ENGLAND
England is done in this town. You better get all you can get Doug before we run your butt out of town and please take your alter ego Baylor with you.
Dear C.D.,
I do not know whom you were speaking of when you made the reference about little old ladies on here getting confused. I hope it wasn’t being directed towards Shirley. She is way too young for you to be implying that she is old or confused! If you were referring to me, I’m going to let you know right now, this old lady still has her smarts!
As for you young man, I have to call into question your smarts. Your math skills at best are weak. How about you let this old lady help you out. I’ll calculate what your sewer bills would actually be under the proposed rate increase for you.
According to you, your household consists of 2.98 people who use approx. 4,000 gallons of water a month. Your household uses 1.6 gallons of water for each toilet flush and your current household monthly sewer charges are $25.00. The proposed rate increase is 36% for 2010, 19% for 2012, and 3% for 2013, 2014, 2015, and 2016.
Based on your information, here is what your monthly sewer charges would be and how much more (per month/per year) you would be paying above your current sewer charges of $25.00:
2010 – $34.00 ($9.00 mo. / $108.00 yr.)
2011 – $34.00 ($9.00 mo. / $108.00 yr.)
2012 – $40.46 ($15.46 mo. / $185.52 yr.)
2013 – $41.67 ($16.67 mo. / $200.09 yr.)
2014 – $42.92 ($17.92 mo. / $215.09 yr.)
2015 – $44.21 ($19.21 mo. / $230.54 yr.)
2016 – $45.54 ($20.54 mo. / $246.46 yr.)
Total cumulative rate increase 2010 to 2016 = 82% ($20.54 / $25.00 = 82%)
From 2010 to 2016 you will pay a total of $1,185.69 more in sewer charges.
My advice to you young man is to take this information and use it to assist you in developing your household budget. I recommend you get your wife and the other .98 of a person in your household involved so they can double-check your math. If you are still planning to implement water conservation as a method to offset the increase, then you can also use the information to calculate the maximum number of 1.6 gallon, toilet flushes your family will be allowed per month.
Sincerely,
Margaret P. Citametham
DISCLAIMER (for idiots)
The above calculations were based on the young man’s current sewer charges of $25.00. His current sewer charges may not be representative of the average sewer charges for all customers. The actual dollar increases you would incur could be more or less depending on your current actual usage/charges; however, the total cumulative rate increase for all customers inside the city during the rate increase period (2010 to 2016) would be 82%.
Correction . . . from 2010 to 2016 you will pay a total of $1,293.70 more in sewer charges (not $1,185.69 as previously reported).
Perhaps this old lady has lost some of her smarts.
My, my, these violent anonymous cowards.
please take your alter ego Baylor with you.
Nah, think I'll stay and brew Progressive Pints. Knowing it annoys anonymous spewers makes the beer taste even better.
(That's your cue, creative minds! Hit me with some billy goat beer belly jokes! They'll make King Larry and the pissoir police laugh!)
Important question needs to be raised at Public Hearing and that is what will the money be used for (besides shoring up the sewers slush fund)? Particular projects. Appendix D of Consent Decree with EPA: A 5 year maintenance plan. Personally, I haven't seen the latest 5 year "maintenance" plan.
OR THEIR BUDGET, LAUGH LAUGH!
Hi, as you may already discovered I'm new here.
Hope to receive some help from you if I will have some quesitons.
Thanks and good luck everyone! ;)
Your Welcome, You 2.
When has England ever stayed on a budget? Didn't the last 8 years, why think he would this time.
$81,300 for trash lids? You have got to be kidding? Each trash can never cost that much when Regina got them. Instead of getting a toaster for a sewer rate increase they want to give us a free trash lid. No thank you, take the cost of my lid and put it against my Sewer rate increase. No one should but England's BS when he said he got x amount free.
Have we learned "nothing is free in England's world" let alone In New Albany.
Bob can spend $81,000 for lids and he won't give up his healthcare. But he can afford a new Lexus.
I smell something and it's not roden droppings either.
$81,300 could pay for a forensic audit of the sewer (books) account.
Beware of the word "free" from England's lips.When he says free, his right hand is in yours and my pocket taking money from my kids.
Anyone wonder what the real reason behind Ron Carril quitting? He wasn't going to jail for what England was doing.
Even Carrol was smart to jump ship.
I agree, audit the sewer books.
Something smells with this entire rate icrease. Are we paying for new sewers for the downtown project or annexations? How many times do we have to pay to fix the same lift station?
“Mayor Doug England worked out a deal with Best Co. that would see the city purchase 4,000 lids and receive 2,000 free, he said Friday. If approved by the council, the lids and containers will be distributed to residents with the most worn down tops.”
Do they even know how many lids are actually needed? Did they pay to have a study done?
Are they going to hand residents a lid and tell them they have to install it? Here you go Edith, now go attach this to your trashcan.
Who decides who has the most worn down tops. Will there be a contest? You bring your lids to the council meeting and they will judge? Will photo’s of the winners and the most worn down lids appear in the Tribune?
We have not discussed the delinquent sewer bills lately. Vicki Denhart said that the sewer dept. took over 1,000 to the recorder's office and they did not have the staff to process them.
I remember the Tribune publishing a list of delinquent customers with the largest amount due at the top and in descending order. The top delinquent rate payers were businesses.
Forget what I said about EDIT funds, we don't need the individuals to carry the burden. We need to go after the individuals or businesses with the largest balances.
Maybe the Tribune can publish another story showing who owes the most.
I just read Freedom of Speech and they have an article on the same subject as my comment a minute ago. I just want to say that I wrote that BEFORE reading FOS.
new here where is freedom of speech?
new here where is freedom of speech?
It's over there, hidden behind all these anonymous people wearing their masks.
Huh,
are you trying to be funny? sorry not understanding your humor.
You'll get it soon enough. Good and hard.
Here's your link:
http://citizensofnewalbany.blogspot.com/
February 27, 2010 3:41 PM
"Maragret"
First off, I never said Shirley was an "old lady", you are trying to inflame things, second it is the "I am against anything the city tries to do" crowd who are always bringing up the "little old lady that lives next door to me told me she is going to have to sell her house"
Lastly even if my current usage stays roughly the same (will decrease when my ".98" household member goes away to college next year, I will still be paying less than I would if I lived in Seymour, Columbus or Bloomington....
I am not aware if you were at the "townhall meeting" held by Coffey and Co, but the people who were there to represent the groups that want no more taxes and fees, clearly made frequent references to "the little old lady next door", that is what I am speaking of, and before the meeting they DID use "scare tactics" by going to older people in the crowd and using trumped up numbers to solicit a fear response before the meeting ever started.
This is a diservice to the community, and it is basically preditory tactics on those who are most vulnerable.
I thank you for your rebuttal, but I also think you should be questioning the "$65" per month in just sewage fees, that is just plain trumped up numbers.
I am in a unique position to do a survey of a demographic in New Albany that is actually the most financially vulerable. Beginning Tuesday, I am going to have my staff ask clients to bring in their city untility bill and create a TRUE average sewage cost of the persons in New Albany living below federal poverty guidelines, and what the sewage rate on their bills are, from that we will be able to determin a good indication of what this will cost the "little people". As part of that we will also give them tips on how to cut water usage and as such to cut costs as part of our case management services to our clients.
Talk is cheap, and there is too much talk going on, we can keep running our mouths, or we can take steps to actually HELP those in the community that are the most vunerable. Which do you want to do, talk or act?
Talk is cheap, and there is too much talk going on, we can keep running our mouths, or we can take steps to actually HELP those in the community that are the most vunerable. Which do you want to do, talk or act?
as you waste your time on your special little survey. i will use my time more productively and find out directly from the sewer dept how much the average sewer bill is. when you get your survey completed we can compare your numbers to the facts. i do agree, talk is cheap and your talk has become worthless, so can we look forward to hearing from you less?
no this is not margaret so leave her alone.
11:56
I'm with you, the sewer increase will effect all people not just the poor. More interested in how it is going to effect all of us. Not against helping the poor, but there is no help for the others. I bet the tax payers pay the sewer bills on the public housing units anyways.
Baylor is crying now about the editorial board on the trib being represented by business and advertising, whats the matter rog feeling like maybe the trib is going to shut your column down
Not at all. In fact, I should be paid more for the product I deliver.
Here you go Chris saved you some time.
water conservation in the home
75% of water used indoors is in the bathroom, and 25% of this is for the toilet
1. Check faucets and pipes for leaks
2. Don't use the toilet as an ashtray or wastebasket
3. Check your toilets for leaks
4. Use your water meter to check for hidden water leaks
5. Install water-saving shower heads and low-flow faucet aerators
6. Put plastic bottles or float booster in your toilet tank
7. Insulate your water pipes
8. Take shorter showers.
9. Turn off the water after you wet your toothbrush
10. Rinse your razor in the sink
11. Use your dishwasher and clothes washer for only full loads
12. Minimize use of kitchen sink garbage disposal units
13. When washing dishes by hand, don't leave the water running for rinsing
14. Don't let the faucet run while you clean vegetables
15. Keep a bottle of drinking water in the fridge.
Anybody have time to go to the Controller's office to look at sewer claims? Some problems may jump out at you, but you'll know the 'questionable' ones when there isn't much of an explanation or detail. Start looking at claims from a year ago.
Too bad the majority of my clients do not come from public housing, They are our neighbors, co-workers, friends, and families. You would be surprised at who we help.
As far as wasting time, and client education that can help them save money and help conserve water is not a waste of time.
Sad that you feel that way though.
To the other poster with the tips, thanks, I will use those.
Question:
Why should we use $81,300 for new lids when a company damaged the lids. Why are they NOT held accountable?
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