A council attorney is not "England's pocket." Sounds like more irrational knee-jerk England bashing.
The council attorney does not represent the mayor and the council gets to choose the attorney. Anyone who says "England's pocket" in this case is just being foolish.
LOL, 10:31, that make no sense. The MAYOR has nothing to do with the COUNCIL hiring a full time attorney. The COUNCIL attorney works for and answers to the COUNCIL--not the mayor.
Mark, I would disagree with your comment a little.
I asked some of the council what they thought about the attorney and they said they did not know him or have never met him that they only had a name.
It seems to me that maybe this particular attorney is being forced on the council.
Why wouldn't the process be more transparent or why wouldn't they advertise to try and find the best applicant?
Coffey wouldn't support voting for the three readings unless he knew it was going to speed up an audit and John seemed to have picked up on his comment and told Coffey that it would help the chances for an audit. I thought this was a ploy to push the handpicked lawyer that not all the council agreed upon.
If the council wants and needs an attorney then all members should be in agreement on whom that is otherwise it could be perceived that it is cronyism or party politics. A party the Mayor is a part of and a party who holds a majority in the council.
Rem, I agree, but it has always been "that way". The circles exist and some of the Council members, I feel, are afraid to stand up and be counted (literally).
Things seem to be a little out of sync among the political lines, from usual. For example, to me, it is appearing as if one side disagrees with England but are already part of things and can't (or won't) back up. The other members seem, to me, as wanting to do the right thing but every obstacle imagined is being thrown their way.
Everyone is pre-annointed for each respective seat and carries a high price for some in the bunch and troubles for those not.
As far as I'm concerned it is the same oh same oh and how much longer does it continue?
If the Sewer Bonds are junk now I have to wonder what shape our other Bonds are in (especially with Redevelopment and TIFs). I don't have the information to see or understand. Curiosity killed the cat, LOL.
the council cannot blame the mayor for the attorney choice. if they want another attorney, they can pick their own person. no one is being forced on them and to pretend as much is just silly.
Readership stats have been freely available at NAC since it inception. Click on the meter and read.
Shirley asked a question, and I answered it.
RemCha, we're closer to agreeing on the attorney issue than you realize, but not quite. I think it's a make-work program deemed acceptable owing only to the cheap price, (and for Coffey) the perception that the winning candidate will be someone he can successfully bully.
Your rantings against Coffey are quite silly considering he is in England's pocket. Your speech and articles about our politicians and council people are fluff considering some of us really know who's up who's skirts. An anonymous opinion, of course.
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Remchar, And if the Council lets that happen, it's not the Mayor's fault. The Mayor(any mayor)cannot hire the Council attorney and that makes 10:31's comment laughable.
Now, why it has been so hush-hush, I don't know. Some of it could be the protection of the person's current employment but, still, the members of the council should be told. As for advertising, ask Mr. Coffey how much advertising that he did when he hired Stan Robison as Council attorney. And if he bothered to tell the former attorney that he had not been retained.
As a voter and as an American citizen, I agree with the following words of wisdom directed to the Federal level, State level and City level:
It is now official you are ALL corrupt morons:
The U.S. Post Service was established in 1775. You have had 234 years to get it right and it is broke.
Social Security was established in 1935. You have had 74 years to get it right and it is broke.
Fannie Mae was established in 1938. You have had 71 years to get it right and it is broke.
War on Poverty started in 1964. You have had 45 years to get it right; $1 trillion of our money is confiscated each year and transferred to the impoverished and you only want more.
Medicare and Medicaid were established in 1965. You have had 44 years to get it right and they are broke.
Freddie Mac was established in 1970. You have had 39 years to get it right and it is broke.
The Department of Energy was created in 1977 to lessen our dependence on foreign oil. It has ballooned to 16,000 employees with a budget of $24 billion a year and we import more oil than ever before. You had 32 years to get it right and it is an abysmal failure.
To England: The first letter from the EPA came in over 22 years ago about our sewers and THEY ARE STILL BROKE.
The amazing part to me about all of these items are most Americans are broke but the politicans are not.
Disguntled Citizen interesting points, but you failed to mention that since the inception of most of those programs started the population base has exploded, putting more demand on our resources. Post office is serving over 300 million americans, with the average user cost at being 44 cents per mailing.Social security is dealing with a record number of elderly americans, living longer, and with more chronic illnesses. Freddie Mac is also dealing with 300 million americans, with millions of families that bought millions of homes they simply could not afford, but were given lonas for anyway.the department of energy, again 300 million americans, all with a hunger for technology, cars, trucks SUV's, mopeds, motorcycles, boats jetskis, RV's all powered with basically the same techonolgy for propulsion that was developed in its rudimentary form in 1780. The department of Energy also has to deal with our hunger for HDTVs, computers, cell phones, gaming systems, surround sound systems, home 10 time the size we need, that have to be lit 24/7. Sewers are the smae old song and dance, we get told they are broken and need fixed, but special interest groups run thier flaps and raise holy hell when rates and taxes have to be raised to fix the problem. MEanwhile we are adding apartments, condos, houses, commercial and industrial buildings to the ailing sewage system.Americans are broke not because of taxes but because of greed and wonton spending to have the latest greatest vehicle, tech gadget, and a bigger better house than our neighbors. Oh, and by the way, we are the morons who elected those people!
England only can suggest. Council has final say in attorney hire. When they hire someone, if it doesn't work out, they cannot blame England. Now's the time to reject suggestion if not good.
Christopher D., the situation of mismanagement of the sewer utility has, what I feel, been going on way too long. This will be what I feel may be the last straw for sewer money being used to shore up the general fund and not being paid back, the last Plan not working and the millions spent on the project, the lack of even being able to come up with a five year maintenance plan. There is more blood on Appendix D with the Consent Agreement than most any other thing associated with it. A simple five year maintenance plan.
With new EPA agreements being hashed out (which most citizens do not realize), new projects our government has to promise again to please the EPA, we do not have the monies for those either.
There were citizens who took this last "Plan" from a to z, including the Bonds. Not any special interest groups, simply citizens. Some members of the community feel this latest (what we feel is continual and ongoing misuse of the sewer utility money with the past Plan, lack of liens being performed in a timely manner, moneys loaned to the city for operating expenses and not paid back, sanitation and drainage still in the sewer budget for the utility) may be the last straw legally for members of government locally because this money they used was Federal money given to the State for appropriations. Low interest bonds for needy cities like ours and all kinds of conditions and strings tied to the money being used.
It's not something you want to say may happen or nothing you may want to happen; it's simply reality.
I feel there is no way to even enact a sewer rate increase by March 1st, just in the short run. Public hearings, legals, etc., simply not enough time. Then what? What about the issue we made 3 payments last year and somehow do not know why we didn't make them this year and it's only February? I do not want to see any indivual go through any harm, I only know what the EPA and the State of Indiana told taxpayers if this past Plan did not work.
Whether you believe the words or not is not of issue to me; whomever, I might rephrase. This is going to be a tough patch and reality check for New Albany.
One of the only hopes I have, with infrastructure and various utilities in every City in the US experiencing, maybe Obama can start another public works program putting people to work with Federal money rebuilding America's infrastructure, as they did years ago. In New Albany, sewers from the WPA program were put in (orangeberg - cardboard) and we still have those areas existing today.
The comment I appreciated on the story in the Tribune talks about how much it costs to bring the water into your home and how much to take it out.
Long subject (literally) with no answers from the citizens who worked this project for ten years except the assurances from the State and Federal government they would take care of it this time. Citizens were not going to pay the civil fines again. So we'll see, okay? No crystal ball here. The hole was dug and it will be what it will be no matter who likes who, who likes what, this subject will play out in the open this time. Shouldn't be any worries about any of it if everything is above board, huh?
The fight already happened. Everything documented and recorded and fought, etc. The time has come to see if citizens did their jobs (civics) and saved the taxpayers so we do not pay the fines.
Now, there is nothing to do except play the waiting game. What will happen will and I personally feel it is out of taxpayers' hands at this time. A lot of work was done in order to protect all the rate and taxpayers this time around. All we can do is see if it was enough, and again, according to the EPA and the State, it was.
We can only wait and see. The waiting game may be the hardest!
Perhaps in retrospect this could have been a situation where a professional Grant Writer may have been able to fund this project, and the shortfalls, and save us all a lot of money.
CDBG could have been used for some work, but wasn't and they (Carl) still won't use it. No other grant money available. SRF is probably as close to free or discount (low interest) money around and there are problems with it now. (Mayor Doug wouldn't ask for it the first time he was in - just dropped out of the application process). Perhaps the millions was just plain NOT USED or not used correctly. Who is going to ask those questions and who is going to answer them? Accountability?
Question: Is/was Stormwater monies and Sanitation monies (including bills for work done) mixed in with Sanitary Sewer monies or have all three been kept completely separate? Has the sewer lent any monies (again) to the other city departments? Has anybody seen proof positive that monies lent were paid completely back?
Good questions. Why don't all of you go look and get back to us?
Did you all hear that even Mr. Price said that he got everything that he had asked for from Kay(the controller) and Shane(the city attorney). All some of you can do is just repeat tired old phrases. "Open the books" Guess what, they were never closed.
My comments are not meant to mean that everything is hunky dory. The information is there and available. You just need to know where to look and then how to understand it once you get it.
Really? From where I sit it seems there is grant monies out there from everything to buying purple widgets up to municipal projects.
Of course I am probably wrong, but it just seems to me that there are billions of dollars in grants available from the stimulus plan alone. That does not include corporate grants, private foundation grants, state grants, and other federal grants.
Again, a professional full time grant writer would know how, when, and where to seek out such monies
Trying the premise of teaching to fish, instead of giving a single fish.
There are ways to actually find answers to our fiscal woes, outside of being reactionary to the very few avenues available to our city at this point for funding.
I took a few moments, with my pluck, to send an inquiry to the federal grants administration office outlining the sanatary sewers infrastructure, and requested information regarding what funding may be available, grant submission guidelines, timetables, etc. and will forward any recieved information to the council.
Hit a couple of dead ends, but it looks like there WAS over $122m available just for sewers and water treatment in Indiana, but of course the deadline for applying was February 28, 2009.
We understand it's not just about bonds. We understand Appendix D, attached with the Federal Consent Decree and impact and the part containing the most blood as many times as it has been revised and fought over and nothing accomplished.
How come the Controller wasn't in the Sewer Board meetings slamming her fist on the podium and preparing them? Surprised? I bet they were surprised. Maybe Buchanan saw this coming and why he retired. Maybe Greg Fifer is back in because he has been present for actions taken after the bonds and Henderson won Prosecutor.
People are having a hard time find the Audit from '08. Someone told us once a link and I can't remember. We want the Sewer Utility Audit which is not part of General Fund Audit.
"New Albany is looking at a 70 percent sewer rate increase. For the past two years, there’s been talk of raising rates but no action by the Council. There was even a presentation last year to the Council by the same firm that relayed the bad news of the needed rate hike to the Sewer Board.
During that presentation, several options were discussed as was the need for the sewer utility to fund itself instead of relying on EDIT subsidies and loans.
The state law requires rates to be set at a level to cover the utility’s expenses.
But there was never a vote, and now a tremendous burden has landed square in the Council’s lap."
The Tribune does a very poor job of providing the facts such as this one:
It is the sewer boards responsibility to set the rate, and the proper procedure is for them to vote on it in a public meeting. They haven't done this in the last two years. So why would the City Council raise sewer rates without a vote and a recommendation from the appointed board? Additionally, the council's only obligation is to ask questions and vote the rate up or down.
Anon: 11:36 "It is the sewer boards responsibility to set the rate, and the proper procedure is for them to vote on it in a public meeting. They haven't done this in the last two years. So why would the City Council raise sewer rates without a vote and a recommendation from the appointed board? Additionally, the council's only obligation is to ask questions and vote the rate up or down."
This isn't accurate, the sewer board OK'd rate increases in 2008. If memory serves correct, they went back again and approved several rate increase options. Council never voted on issue.
Also, sewer board only has authority over Georgetown's rates. By ordinance, the new albany city council controls the city's rates, not the sewer board. It can only make suggestions.
Daniel S-- "This isn't accurate, the sewer board OK'd rate increases in 2008. If memory serves correct, they went back again and approved several rate increase options. Council never voted on issue."
Better check this one again. The council approved the sewer board's recommendation in 2006 which included $870,000.00 yr in EDIT. The sewer board decided to spread the rate increase of about 19% (not including edit) over the next 3 years. That equates to about 9 million in new revenue (again, not including EDIT).
Also, for the record the sewer board decided a new 45 million dollar sewer facility was necessary 2004.
In preparation for this fiasco, the citizens of New Albany swallowed a 40+ % sewer increase under Regina Overton.
Also, the previous Sewer Board with Kochert, Seabrook, Zurschmiede, Utz appoved a $15 million no-bid contract with EMC. This price tag does not include bonuses. The council protested, but the group plowed ahead, sealing the fate of the rate payers in New Albany. The management fees of EMC could exceed 45% of the revenue of the utility in 2010.
Some are starting to realize the forensic audit doesn't sound quite right. How can they proceed with this without England's permission?
Why would they do this? 6 police cars, or 5?
Arbitration? They have been through arbitration recently.
EPA has already been notified and hopefully Gregory will be back, asap.
Reading and reading the article again someone has to play the Devil's advocate. This does not pass the smell test; in other words something is wrong in Denmark.
Daniel, please do some more homework. We need more information but accurate. Thanks.
As for the audit, Charlie Pride of SBA says it would be a duplication of services. The FOP says it's an entirely different audit so it wouldn't be, SBA doesn't feel that way. But the SBA doesn't have direct power to punish city. It's an oversight evident in many realms of state gov't. For example, a city is commanded to redistrict, but if they don't, essentially there's no way they can be forced to do so unless a group of residents sues them. There are other examples to of rules without any real place to enforce them. As for England's permission, it would depend on what pot of money the audit came from. The council's in charge of money appropriations, though the mayor has veto power.
Some of us are looking directly at Coffey because he has mentioned before he knew an independent guy who could do such things. Simply don't see it without England's backing. Council is not in trouble yet but they open this can of worms behind the scenes, uh oh.
we could lose up to 20 fire fighters. This should make CFA pretty happy. They have been griping about those pesky fire fighter and police officers for years. Hey CFA, do yao all want to help care for all those families? They will be little people once they loose their jobs.
City Government is not the only place closed today. My employer is open today but since they are located on Dixie Hwy. I'm at home. The only people who showed up live near work.
I think the decision to close City Go. was a wise one considering the amount of snow that keeps falling. I believe that safety should come first and everyone should stay off the streets if at all possible.
Besides I have it from a good source that Mickey and the Street Dept. were out last night and early this morning.
Yes, I attended last nights meeting. Even Randy Smith was there with his recorder.
It was 4 hours of whining.(police & fire) The Mayor continues to claim the police and fire are underfunded. How can that be, when eighty five cents of every dollar in our general fund goes to police and fire.
I say lay them all off and start cutting jobs.
Louisville, Jeff, Clarksville, Sellersburg and Charleston has, let England lead by example.
OKAY ANONYMOUS 12:06 FEB 9TH, I DON'T WANT TO HEAR ANYTHING OUT OF YOU WHEN THERE IS NO POLICE OF FIRE DEPARTMENTS AND YOUR HOUSE BURNS TO THE GROUND OR WHEN A LOVED ONE DIES AT THE HANDS OF A THIEF.
A rate study has to be done before sewer rates are hiked, unless this is what Skomp did.
How he could study the sewer utility money with street dept funds and drainage funds and everything else wrapped up in same I have no clue. Justification will be hard to prove without finances being separated even though City has been told to do so X amount of years through Audits.
I have always heard Developers were waiting to do an Audit if it comes down to them not being able to build. If we can't do future projects according to dictates from EPA, I think we will be hearing more from them even if they did contribute to campaigns.
The fire and police are vital services. At the same time citizens and council have been after them for years to park cars which leave the city; keep tab of cell phones, mileage, etc. Audit shows this didn't happen. Where does this leave the taxpayer? With a bad taste in their mouth. We care about 'em, but they need to care about the City in whole and realize how much of the General Fund they do receive. A little work from both sides (give and take) would sure help everyone.
Shirley, The cars and cell phone usage is really a very small amount of money. Also the city of New Albany does not have room to park all of the police cars, they tried that under Regina and there was no parking left in downtown New Albany. Something to keep in minds is that 75% of our property taxes go to the SCHOOLS (have you seen those additions?) and 85% of what is left over goes to police in fire. The fire department is not asking for anything more, they are just asking to keep what they have going. Anna
how about those lazy firefighters that should be laid off? What a waste of money they were out in single digit windchills rescuing people from a burning apartment? Stupid people should have not been in a burning building, and we wouldnt have to pay those firefighters!
and when groups like CFA pushed for property tax "reform" they slit our own financial throats. But by god they at least are happy because they are paying less for taxes on their homes. Who cares about police and fire protection, who cares about childrens education, just so those poor little people dont have to pay to help fund those things
Just when I think it can't get any funnier, now we have anonymous demanding that other posters identify themselves. As though "Anna" is an unusual name.
Cracks me up. Is it a joke?
Anonymous said... Attention: Anonymous comment on February 9, 2010 at 6:57 PM. _____________________________________
I have just received a call from a friend to inform me that someone has posted comments on this blog site and signed with the name, Anna.
If you true name is Anna, please identify yourself with a last name.
To: Feb 9th at 6:57 I am new to the blog world and don't feel comfortable sharing all of my identity. Anna is all for now, but I do find it rather funny that you ask and are listed as anonymous. I can tell you that I run a business in New Albany and have been here all my life. I care deeply for New Albany and believe it has great potential.
this anna is a fake....no way I believe she has lived here all her life and still thinks new albany has potential. People from here don't think that way. they like new albany just the way it is. anna's statement comes from those not from here and who try to remain hopeful in an effort ease their mind since they realize they are now stuck here.
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102 comments:
Coffey yelled and Price uttered nonsense. What else?
Coffey told me he was going to vote against full time attorney, then jumped back into England's pocket.
Go figure.
A council attorney is not "England's pocket." Sounds like more irrational knee-jerk England bashing.
The council attorney does not represent the mayor and the council gets to choose the attorney. Anyone who says "England's pocket" in this case is just being foolish.
LOL, 10:31, that make no sense. The MAYOR has nothing to do with the COUNCIL hiring a full time attorney. The COUNCIL attorney works for and answers to the COUNCIL--not the mayor.
Go figure, indeed.
I don't mind people criticizing the mayor if they have their facts straight and their reasoning is sounds.
The problem with most posts on VOP or FOS is that the facts are curved and the reasoning is mute.
Full coverage at NAC:
Council Part One: “I don’t want to be spoon fed information,” says Coffey, who promptly chokes on it.
Council Part Two: Price votes for an abatement, and is excommunicated by Grover Norquist.
I guess readership has declined over at NAC and they are having to advertise here now.
Isn't that the truth, LOL!
Mark, I would disagree with your comment a little.
I asked some of the council what they thought about the attorney and they said they did not know him or have never met him that they only had a name.
It seems to me that maybe this particular attorney is being forced on the council.
Why wouldn't the process be more transparent or why wouldn't they advertise to try and find the best applicant?
Coffey wouldn't support voting for the three readings unless he knew it was going to speed up an audit and John seemed to have picked up on his comment and told Coffey that it would help the chances for an audit. I thought this was a ploy to push the handpicked lawyer that not all the council agreed upon.
If the council wants and needs an attorney then all members should be in agreement on whom that is otherwise it could be perceived that it is cronyism or party politics. A party the Mayor is a part of and a party who holds a majority in the council.
What’s your perspective?
Rem, I agree, but it has always been "that way". The circles exist and some of the Council members, I feel, are afraid to stand up and be counted (literally).
Things seem to be a little out of sync among the political lines, from usual. For example, to me, it is appearing as if one side disagrees with England but are already part of things and can't (or won't) back up. The other members seem, to me, as wanting to do the right thing but every obstacle imagined is being thrown their way.
Everyone is pre-annointed for each respective seat and carries a high price for some in the bunch and troubles for those not.
As far as I'm concerned it is the same oh same oh and how much longer does it continue?
If the Sewer Bonds are junk now I have to wonder what shape our other Bonds are in (especially with Redevelopment and TIFs). I don't have the information to see or understand. Curiosity killed the cat, LOL.
CURIOSITY.
the council cannot blame the mayor for the attorney choice. if they want another attorney, they can pick their own person. no one is being forced on them and to pretend as much is just silly.
Readership stats have been freely available at NAC since it inception. Click on the meter and read.
Shirley asked a question, and I answered it.
RemCha, we're closer to agreeing on the attorney issue than you realize, but not quite. I think it's a make-work program deemed acceptable owing only to the cheap price, (and for Coffey) the perception that the winning candidate will be someone he can successfully bully.
Your rantings against Coffey are quite silly considering he is in England's pocket. Your speech and articles about our politicians and council people are fluff considering some of us really know who's up who's skirts. An anonymous opinion, of course.
Good day, sun shines!
There have been times of troubles when I didn't know about opportunities of getting high yields on investments. I was a dump and downright stupid person.
I have never thought that there weren't any need in large initial investment.
Nowadays, I feel good, I begin to get real money.
It's all about how to select a proper companion who uses your funds in a right way - that is incorporate it in real deals, parts and divides the income with me.
You can get interested, if there are such firms? I have to answer the truth, YES, there are. Please get to know about one of them:
http://theinvestblog.com [url=http://theinvestblog.com]Online Investment Blog[/url]
Good day, sun shines!
There have been times of hardship when I felt unhappy missing knowledge about opportunities of getting high yields on investments. I was a dump and downright stupid person.
I have never imagined that there weren't any need in big initial investment.
Nowadays, I'm happy and lucky , I started to get real money.
It's all about how to choose a correct partner who utilizes your funds in a right way - that is incorporate it in real business, and shares the income with me.
You can get interested, if there are such firms? I'm obliged to tell the truth, YES, there are. Please be informed of one of them:
http://theinvestblog.com [url=http://theinvestblog.com]Online Investment Blog[/url]
Remchar,
And if the Council lets that happen, it's not the Mayor's fault. The Mayor(any mayor)cannot hire the Council attorney and that makes 10:31's comment laughable.
Now, why it has been so hush-hush, I don't know. Some of it could be the protection of the person's current employment but, still, the members of the council should be told. As for advertising, ask Mr. Coffey how much advertising that he did when he hired Stan Robison as Council attorney. And if he bothered to tell the former attorney that he had not been retained.
As a voter and as an American citizen, I agree with the following words of wisdom directed to the Federal level, State level and City level:
It is now official you are ALL corrupt morons:
The U.S. Post Service was established in 1775. You have had 234 years to get it right and it is broke.
Social Security was established in 1935. You have had 74 years to get it right and it is broke.
Fannie Mae was established in 1938.
You have had 71 years to get it right and it is broke.
War on Poverty started in 1964. You have had 45 years to get it right; $1 trillion of our money is confiscated each year and transferred to the impoverished and you only want more.
Medicare and Medicaid were established in 1965. You have had 44 years to get it right and they are broke.
Freddie Mac was established in
1970. You have had 39 years to get it right and it is broke.
The Department of Energy was created in 1977 to lessen our dependence on foreign oil. It has ballooned to 16,000 employees with a budget of $24 billion a year and we import more oil than ever before. You had 32 years to get it right and it is an abysmal failure.
To England: The first letter from the EPA came in over 22 years ago about our sewers and THEY ARE STILL BROKE.
The amazing part to me about all of these items are most Americans are broke but the politicans are not.
Simply thoughts of a disgruntled citizen.
gee, think of that yourself? (sigh)
Disguntled Citizen
interesting points, but you failed to mention that since the inception of most of those programs started the population base has exploded, putting more demand on our resources.
Post office is serving over 300 million americans, with the average user cost at being 44 cents per mailing.Social security is dealing with a record number of elderly americans, living longer, and with more chronic illnesses.
Freddie Mac is also dealing with 300 million americans, with millions of families that bought millions of homes they simply could not afford, but were given lonas for anyway.the department of energy, again 300 million americans, all with a hunger for technology, cars, trucks SUV's, mopeds, motorcycles, boats jetskis, RV's all powered with basically the same techonolgy for propulsion that was developed in its rudimentary form in 1780. The department of Energy also has to deal with our hunger for HDTVs, computers, cell phones, gaming systems, surround sound systems, home 10 time the size we need, that have to be lit 24/7.
Sewers are the smae old song and dance, we get told they are broken and need fixed, but special interest groups run thier flaps and raise holy hell when rates and taxes have to be raised to fix the problem. MEanwhile we are adding apartments, condos, houses, commercial and industrial buildings to the ailing sewage system.Americans are broke not because of taxes but because of greed and wonton spending to have the latest greatest vehicle, tech gadget, and a bigger better house than our neighbors. Oh, and by the way, we are the morons who elected those people!
more population means more taxpayers means more tax revenue...doesn't mean lo' money mo' problems.
Maybe true IF there are a record number of children and retirees.
Same energy usage wih out all the tax support.
How about we're broke since Bush increased spending and cut taxes for Rich?
I am feeling somewhat Guntled this afternoon.
Dan Lorch is who England picked as fill time council attorney. Check it out.
England only can suggest. Council has final say in attorney hire. When they hire someone, if it doesn't work out, they cannot blame England. Now's the time to reject suggestion if not good.
Anon 9:24 AM
OK, we see you're disgruntled, aside from the standard "kick England out of office", what are your suggestions to remedy this?
I honestly see none other than raising fees to meet the demand for the cost of the sewage operations.
Stinks like, well raw sewage, but in the end what choice do we really have right now?
What happens if we successfully pressure our council to vote against it? Can the sewer board do it anyway with out the councils blessings?
If all stops are put in place, and there is no rate increase, what happens to the bonds we can not pay back?
Christopher D., the situation of mismanagement of the sewer utility has, what I feel, been going on way too long. This will be what I feel may be the last straw for sewer money being used to shore up the general fund and not being paid back, the last Plan not working and the millions spent on the project, the lack of even being able to come up with a five year maintenance plan. There is more blood on Appendix D with the Consent Agreement than most any other thing associated with it. A simple five year maintenance plan.
With new EPA agreements being hashed out (which most citizens do not realize), new projects our government has to promise again to please the EPA, we do not have the monies for those either.
There were citizens who took this last "Plan" from a to z, including the Bonds. Not any special interest groups, simply citizens. Some members of the community feel this latest (what we feel is continual and ongoing misuse of the sewer utility money with the past Plan, lack of liens being performed in a timely manner, moneys loaned to the city for operating expenses and not paid back, sanitation and drainage still in the sewer budget for the utility) may be the last straw legally for members of government locally because this money they used was Federal money given to the State for appropriations. Low interest bonds for needy cities like ours and all kinds of conditions and strings tied to the money being used.
It's not something you want to say may happen or nothing you may want to happen; it's simply reality.
I feel there is no way to even enact a sewer rate increase by March 1st, just in the short run. Public hearings, legals, etc., simply not enough time. Then what? What about the issue we made 3 payments last year and somehow do not know why we didn't make them this year and it's only February? I do not want to see any indivual go through any harm, I only know what the EPA and the State of Indiana told taxpayers if this past Plan did not work.
Whether you believe the words or not is not of issue to me; whomever, I might rephrase. This is going to be a tough patch and reality check for New Albany.
One of the only hopes I have, with infrastructure and various utilities in every City in the US experiencing, maybe Obama can start another public works program putting people to work with Federal money rebuilding America's infrastructure, as they did years ago. In New Albany, sewers from the WPA program were put in (orangeberg - cardboard) and we still have those areas existing today.
The comment I appreciated on the story in the Tribune talks about how much it costs to bring the water into your home and how much to take it out.
Long subject (literally) with no answers from the citizens who worked this project for ten years except the assurances from the State and Federal government they would take care of it this time. Citizens were not going to pay the civil fines again. So we'll see, okay? No crystal ball here. The hole was dug and it will be what it will be no matter who likes who, who likes what, this subject will play out in the open this time. Shouldn't be any worries about any of it if everything is above board, huh?
Disgruntled Citizen.
Disgruntled Citizen
You took the words right out of my mouth. (only kidding)
So what's the plan? How do we fight back?
Disgruntled Citizen 2.
The fight already happened. Everything documented and recorded and fought, etc. The time has come to see if citizens did their jobs (civics) and saved the taxpayers so we do not pay the fines.
Now, there is nothing to do except play the waiting game. What will happen will and I personally feel it is out of taxpayers' hands at this time. A lot of work was done in order to protect all the rate and taxpayers this time around. All we can do is see if it was enough, and again, according to the EPA and the State, it was.
We can only wait and see. The waiting game may be the hardest!
No crystal ball here. Simply history.
Perhaps in retrospect this could have been a situation where a professional Grant Writer may have been able to fund this project, and the shortfalls, and save us all a lot of money.
But there is a little saying about hind-sight...
CDBG could have been used for some work, but wasn't and they (Carl) still won't use it. No other grant money available. SRF is probably as close to free or discount (low interest) money around and there are problems with it now. (Mayor Doug wouldn't ask for it the first time he was in - just dropped out of the application process). Perhaps the millions was just plain NOT USED or not used correctly. Who is going to ask those questions and who is going to answer them? Accountability?
I would think this is an issue Citizens for Accountability would take on. Let's have some accountability folks.
If you are reading this Mayor England. If you have nothing to hide open the books.
Question: Is/was Stormwater monies and Sanitation monies (including bills for work done) mixed in with Sanitary Sewer monies or have all three been kept completely separate? Has the sewer lent any monies (again) to the other city departments? Has anybody seen proof positive that monies lent were paid completely back?
Good questions. Why don't all of you go look and get back to us?
Did you all hear that even Mr. Price said that he got everything that he had asked for from Kay(the controller) and Shane(the city attorney). All some of you can do is just repeat tired old phrases. "Open the books" Guess what, they were never closed.
My comments are not meant to mean that everything is hunky dory. The information is there and available. You just need to know where to look and then how to understand it once you get it.
When you don't understand basic math, it's hard to know when the books are open and when they're shut.
"No other grant money available."
Really? From where I sit it seems there is grant monies out there from everything to buying purple widgets up to municipal projects.
Of course I am probably wrong, but it just seems to me that there are billions of dollars in grants available from the stimulus plan alone. That does not include corporate grants, private foundation grants, state grants, and other federal grants.
Again, a professional full time grant writer would know how, when, and where to seek out such monies
Hope someone goes to the meeting at 1pm and reports back!
Not meaning to beat a dead horse but the following links may be interesting to those who can think out of the box:
http://www2.mcdowellnews.com/content/2009/may/06/city-receives-26-million-federal-stimulus-funds/
http://www2.eprisenow.com/ent/news/local/article/enterprise_city_sewer_system_gets_500000_boost/120356/
http://kdoch.state.ks.us/public/news/news_release.jsp?rlsID=1137513037192
So there IS money out there...
So what's the plan? How do we fight back?
Disgruntled Citizen 2.
You go to meetings, read reports, stick to facts. You don't just read anonymous blogs insisting (without evidence) that there's some sort of cover-up.
... but the following links may be interesting to those who can think out of the box
Here? (astonishment)
Roger,
Trying the premise of teaching to fish, instead of giving a single fish.
There are ways to actually find answers to our fiscal woes, outside of being reactionary to the very few avenues available to our city at this point for funding.
I admire your pluck. When you're finished working miracles here, come to my place. My cats need herding ... and lessons in Shakespearan acting.
I took a few moments, with my pluck, to send an inquiry to the federal grants administration office outlining the sanatary sewers infrastructure, and requested information regarding what funding may be available, grant submission guidelines, timetables, etc. and will forward any recieved information to the council.
Sounds great Christopher D! Sure can't hurt, but then Sewer Board is going to want the info 2.
TY for the input.
Thank you Christopher.
Stormwater is suppose to be audited every three years. Guess what, it PAST three years, it's now on year number four.
Great job Christopher D. stay on top of this issue.
anonymous 10:28 it's documented the sewers loaned the General Fund more money. Check it out on FOS on Monday.
Jackie
Any shovel ready projects? This raise in rates is just about not paying the money for work already done years ago (bonds).
Hit a couple of dead ends, but it looks like there WAS over $122m available just for sewers and water treatment in Indiana, but of course the deadline for applying was February 28, 2009.
Still digging...
We understand it's not just about bonds. We understand Appendix D, attached with the Federal Consent Decree and impact and the part containing the most blood as many times as it has been revised and fought over and nothing accomplished.
How come the Controller wasn't in the Sewer Board meetings slamming her fist on the podium and preparing them? Surprised? I bet they were surprised. Maybe Buchanan saw this coming and why he retired. Maybe Greg Fifer is back in because he has been present for actions taken after the bonds and Henderson won Prosecutor.
People are having a hard time find the Audit from '08. Someone told us once a link and I can't remember. We want the Sewer Utility Audit which is not part of General Fund Audit.
Any ideas, let us know. Thanks.
To 12:35
Back to studying Narcissism 101.
http://www.in.gov/sboa/resources/reports/audit/Default.aspx
Type in:City of New Albany
County: Floyd
End Year: 2008
This has wastewater and sewer info.
(eg some pages: 22, 43,49, 54,73).
Can you make the web site two lines? Can't make out the ending. TY.
Web site:
http://www.in.gov/sboa/resources/reports/
audit/Default.aspx
Try this way:
County: Floyd
End Year: 2008
Then you can choose what you want.
Thank you, Thank you.
Excellent comments from the FOP & Paul Haub re forensic audit. Thank you, all of you, for the duties you perform.
Citizens need you now. TY.
The Tribune writes:
"New Albany is looking at a 70 percent sewer rate increase. For the past two years, there’s been talk of raising rates but no action by the Council. There was even a presentation last year to the Council by the same firm that relayed the bad news of the needed rate hike to the Sewer Board.
During that presentation, several options were discussed as was the need for the sewer utility to fund itself instead of relying on EDIT subsidies and loans.
The state law requires rates to be set at a level to cover the utility’s expenses.
But there was never a vote, and now a tremendous burden has landed square in the Council’s lap."
The Tribune does a very poor job of providing the facts such as this one:
It is the sewer boards responsibility to set the rate, and the proper procedure is for them to vote on it in a public meeting. They haven't done this in the last two years. So why would the City Council raise sewer rates without a vote and a recommendation from the appointed board? Additionally, the council's only obligation is to ask questions and vote the rate up or down.
Come on Tribune, you can do better.
Thank you Shirley for providing this service.
Will the forensic audit jeopardize any books the Feds and/or State want to seize?
Anon: 11:36
"It is the sewer boards responsibility to set the rate, and the proper procedure is for them to vote on it in a public meeting. They haven't done this in the last two years. So why would the City Council raise sewer rates without a vote and a recommendation from the appointed board? Additionally, the council's only obligation is to ask questions and vote the rate up or down."
This isn't accurate, the sewer board OK'd rate increases in 2008. If memory serves correct, they went back again and approved several rate increase options. Council never voted on issue.
Also, sewer board only has authority over Georgetown's rates. By ordinance, the new albany city council controls the city's rates, not the sewer board. It can only make suggestions.
Daniel S--
"This isn't accurate, the sewer board OK'd rate increases in 2008. If memory serves correct, they went back again and approved several rate increase options. Council never voted on issue."
Better check this one again. The council approved the sewer board's recommendation in 2006 which included $870,000.00 yr in EDIT. The sewer board decided to spread the rate increase of about 19% (not including edit) over the next 3 years. That equates to about 9 million in new revenue (again, not including EDIT).
Also, for the record the sewer board decided a new 45 million dollar sewer facility was necessary 2004.
In preparation for this fiasco, the citizens of New Albany swallowed a 40+ % sewer increase under Regina Overton.
Also, the previous Sewer Board with Kochert, Seabrook, Zurschmiede, Utz appoved a $15 million no-bid contract with EMC. This price tag does not include bonuses. The council protested, but the group plowed ahead, sealing the fate of the rate payers in New Albany. The management fees of EMC could exceed 45% of the revenue of the utility in 2010.
Welcome to the party.
Some are starting to realize the forensic audit doesn't sound quite right. How can they proceed with this without England's permission?
Why would they do this? 6 police cars, or 5?
Arbitration? They have been through arbitration recently.
EPA has already been notified and hopefully Gregory will be back, asap.
Reading and reading the article again someone has to play the Devil's advocate. This does not pass the smell test; in other words something is wrong in
Denmark.
Daniel, please do some more homework. We need more information but accurate. Thanks.
Couldn't find the link from the SB meeting, but I was there when they passed the rate increases at the June 26, 2008 meeting.
http://www.newsandtribune.com/archivesearch/local_story_220111825.html
As for the audit, Charlie Pride of SBA says it would be a duplication of services. The FOP says it's an entirely different audit so it wouldn't be, SBA doesn't feel that way.
But the SBA doesn't have direct power to punish city.
It's an oversight evident in many realms of state gov't. For example, a city is commanded to redistrict, but if they don't, essentially there's no way they can be forced to do so unless a group of residents sues them. There are other examples to of rules without any real place to enforce them.
As for England's permission, it would depend on what pot of money the audit came from. The council's in charge of money appropriations, though the mayor has veto power.
Some of us are looking directly at Coffey because he has mentioned before he knew an independent guy who could do such things. Simply don't see it without England's backing. Council is not in trouble yet but they open this can of worms behind the scenes, uh oh.
Thanks.
yeah, he is back---maybe to make another 282k like he did on 07-08 off of the city
we could lose up to 20 fire fighters. This should make CFA pretty happy. They have been griping about those pesky fire fighter and police officers for years. Hey CFA, do yao all want to help care for all those families? They will be little people once they loose their jobs.
CITY GOVERNMENT CLOSED TODAY! HEY MAYOR ENGLAND GET THEM DAMN SALT TRUCKS OUT!!!!!!!!
DO WE EVEWN HAVE ANY SALT OR DID HE SPEND THAT MONEY ON BAYLORS SIDEWALK & PATIO TOO?
City Government is not the only place closed today. My employer is open today but since they are located on Dixie Hwy. I'm at home. The only people who showed up live near work.
I think the decision to close City Go. was a wise one considering the amount of snow that keeps falling. I believe that safety should come first and everyone should stay off the streets if at all possible.
Besides I have it from a good source that Mickey and the Street Dept. were out last night and early this morning.
Be safe everybody.
Anyone attend the Police & Fire workshop last night?
Yes, I attended last nights meeting. Even Randy Smith was there with his recorder.
It was 4 hours of whining.(police & fire) The Mayor continues to claim the police and fire are underfunded. How can that be, when eighty five cents of every dollar in our general fund goes to police and fire.
I say lay them all off and start cutting jobs.
Louisville, Jeff, Clarksville, Sellersburg and Charleston has, let England lead by example.
Let Malysz and Dennison gooooo first!
Add Shane Gibson to that list also.
Let England take a 20% cut in pay, since he's NOT working for the $$$$$$$.
OKAY ANONYMOUS 12:06 FEB 9TH, I DON'T WANT TO HEAR ANYTHING OUT OF YOU WHEN THERE IS NO POLICE OF FIRE DEPARTMENTS AND YOUR HOUSE BURNS TO THE GROUND OR WHEN A LOVED ONE DIES AT THE HANDS OF A THIEF.
I got a gun and the police all hang around pawn shops and talk on their cell phone.
Ask Pat. M. about his son who almost got hit by a police car without lights on and on a dead end street last night!
Fire them all!!!!
Get rid of the TIFs and see how much of that money would be back in the General Fund to be used for Police & Fire!
You got that right. Eliminate the TIF's Mayor England.
Now England wants to annex. Give us a break, we can't handle what problems we have why annex.
I heard the mayor had the Street Dept. shovel his drivewayl I guess he needed to hit "happy hour" at Studio's.
A rate study has to be done before sewer rates are hiked, unless this is what Skomp did.
How he could study the sewer utility money with street dept funds and drainage funds and everything else wrapped up in same I have no clue. Justification will be hard to prove without finances being separated even though City has been told to do so X amount of years through Audits.
I have always heard Developers were waiting to do an Audit if it comes down to them not being able to build. If we can't do future projects according to dictates from EPA, I think we will be hearing more from them even if they did contribute to campaigns.
The fire and police are vital services. At the same time citizens and council have been after them for years to park cars which leave the city; keep tab of cell phones, mileage, etc. Audit shows this didn't happen. Where does this leave the taxpayer? With a bad taste in their mouth. We care about 'em, but they need to care about the City in whole and realize how much of the General Fund they do receive. A little work from both sides (give and take) would sure help everyone.
Thanks Shirley.
I saw three trucks with blades on them and didn't bother dropping the blades to clear snow and ice.
There went the rest of the 2010 budget.
Shirley,
The cars and cell phone usage is really a very small amount of money. Also the city of New Albany does not have room to park all of the police cars, they tried that under Regina and there was no parking left in downtown New Albany. Something to keep in minds is that 75% of our property taxes go to the SCHOOLS (have you seen those additions?) and 85% of what is left over goes to police in fire. The fire department is not asking for anything more, they are just asking to keep what they have going.
Anna
Sorry, the State is now paying for schools, not our local taxes.
and the state gets their money from.....
Schools do not effect our general fund any longer, as was stated previously. The General Fund is separate from the State's budget. And?
"Get rid of the TIFs and see how much of that money would be back in the General Fund to be used for Police & Fire!"
Okay, how much? You seem pretty positive about that. Not looking for an exact amount. In round figures, just how much?
how about those lazy firefighters that should be laid off? What a waste of money they were out in single digit windchills rescuing people from a burning apartment? Stupid people should have not been in a burning building, and we wouldnt have to pay those firefighters!
when property taxes went to schools--it was split 55% went to schools---45% went to local government
and when groups like CFA pushed for property tax "reform" they slit our own financial throats. But by god they at least are happy because they are paying less for taxes on their homes. Who cares about police and fire protection, who cares about childrens education, just so those poor little people dont have to pay to help fund those things
Attention: Anonymous comment on
February 9, 2010 at 6:57 PM.
_____________________________________
I have just received a call from a friend to inform me that someone has posted comments on this blog site and signed with the name, Anna.
If you true name is Anna, please identify yourself with a last name.
___________________________________
Anon 2:51
I noticed that too and was going to ask this person the same thing.
Thank you.
10:02 you must have a real chop on your shoulder. I applaud CFA for fighting for me and my familt. You are either a cop, a relative, or a renter.
Do your home work crime is down in New Albany.
They knew what they were doing when they became a police officer ir firefighter.
You should be pist off at England and his political paybacks and all his feel good projects.
Who paves streets and not fixes the sewer and stormwater just to say, I paved the streets like I promised, reelect me in 2011!?!
That guy won't get elected code enforcement let alone dog catcher after this ordeal.
Just when I think it can't get any funnier, now we have anonymous demanding that other posters identify themselves. As though "Anna" is an unusual name.
Cracks me up. Is it a joke?
Anonymous said...
Attention: Anonymous comment on
February 9, 2010 at 6:57 PM.
_____________________________________
I have just received a call from a friend to inform me that someone has posted comments on this blog site and signed with the name, Anna.
If you true name is Anna, please identify yourself with a last name.
I think this could filed under, "Chickens coming home to roost".
To February 10, 2010 3:26 PM,
You should be "pist" that your grammer school teacher failed you so miserably.
To: Feb 9th at 6:57
I am new to the blog world and don't feel comfortable sharing all of my identity. Anna is all for now, but I do find it rather funny that you ask and are listed as anonymous. I can tell you that I run a business in New Albany and have been here all my life. I care deeply for New Albany and believe it has great potential.
this anna is a fake....no way I believe she has lived here all her life and still thinks new albany has potential. People from here don't think that way. they like new albany just the way it is. anna's statement comes from those not from here and who try to remain hopeful in an effort ease their mind since they realize they are now stuck here.
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