I arrived at the Town Hall meeting about 25 min. late. Mr. Coffey had already done his presentation and he had just opened the meeting for public comments.
And comment they did! Many people expressed great concern over a 70% sewer rate increase. One lady said she would have to close her business after 30 years and move to Jeffersonville. A young woman said she just purchased a home and had to work three jobs just to make ends meet. And there were many similar stories.
There was a lot of interesting information given: in the years 2008 and 2009 there was only $69,738.06 collected in sewer liens, per Vicki Denhart. This seems like a small amount considering the huge amount that is owed. Personally I think the city should go after the business owners who owe thousands instead of just the property owner who may owe much less. But every dollar helps.
Mr. Coffey also asked everyone present to attend the council meeting tomorrow night (2/18) and speak in favor of the forensic audit resolution. There should be a long list of public speakers.
It was also mentioned that the previous audits are available on the indiana.gov website, look under "State Board of Accounts", then "audits" then "Floyd County" and then "New Albany". It may take a minute but it should be worth while.
Pat Harrison said that she had spoken with Rep. Ed Clere this evening and he said that he has found a way to reduce the increase to 35%. She said he did not elaborate so there were no further details. That helps but it's still a big increase.
There is another meeting scheduled for April 6, 2010. I don't know the topic but it is sure to be a lively discussion.
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46 comments:
Please check out Daniel Suddeath's news release @ www.newsandtribune.com
He explains Mr. Clere's plan in detail and in a way we can understand.
Thanks Daniel
Jeffersonville just raised their rates 200% over the next few years. Read all about it in the beloved Tribune/evening news
http://www.news-tribune.net/archivesearch/local_story_355235333.html
Daniel S,
I know that you take pride in your work at the Tribune and I wouldn't know how you felt with the comments made at the meeting.
The only thing I can add is the same thing I have said before. I don't think that they are directed at the staff reporting but what the Tribune puts in its paid editorial section. It is a reflection of the paper and after repeated columns by Roger, a few by Matt Nash, and the comment by Steve K. I can understand why Mr. Coffey would feel the way he does.
I'm not trying to defend Mr. Coffey he will have to speak for himself and I know you’re intelligent enough to know this I'm just saying it to say it.
Other than that even though I might not agree with how the meeting was conducted I would like to thank Mr. Coffey and all council members that were involved. Council members don't get paid a lot to do what they do and for members to take the extra time to engage the public should be applauded even if it is self-serving.
Throughout the meeting one of the repeated thoughts that I had is this is democracy. If I don't mess it up to much didn't Churchill say? "Democracy is the worst form of government but it is better than all the rest".
Shirley, how can you pretend to be a viable candidate for council, but swallow the tripe you listened to tonight? God save us from Shirley Baird.
RED FLAG! RED FLAG!
AUDIT!!! AUDIT!!! AUDIT!!!
Open the books!!!
NO RATE INCREASE OF ANY KIND!!!
I feel for the woman who works three jobs to make ends meet but frankly it seems as if she paid too much for her house or is living beyond her means.
To the woman who is leaving town because of the higher fee, what is the cost of selling your na business packing up and moving to jeffersonville. Let's say you can make the move for $5000 (a very conservative estimate. If you save $50 a month (a gross over estimate). It will take you 100 months to recoup the cost of moving. Not a very good business decision.
Now that it is established the City knew they could not make the Bond payments at the end of the year for the Audit and prepared to use EDIT funds, Council was circumvented legally because the only way (ONLY) Controller can move such funds without Council's permission is an Emergency. As they knew about it for awhile, why the Hell do I even need a Council? Not that it is the Council's fault; it would be more like the Administration doing whatever their will is.
I say let the Bondholders sue us; maybe we will find the truth. I say let the State sue us (but Clere stopped that 1) and maybe we will find the truth. I say let the EPA come in and take over the Sewers and maybe we will find the truth. Why make us pay for a forensic audit? FOP agreed to only pay a "part".
How in the Haites, with all the departments mixed in with the sewers, can ANYONE due a rate study of any kind? Maybe the Controller told him of all the monies owed here and there and maybe overthere.
Mixed emotions about the meeting. Interesting "who" was in attendance. Glad Pat Harrison spoke for real estate and renters.
Glad to see SAVE THE KNOBS represented.
Glad to see the County represented.
To me, in summary, it felt more like a let them down easy kind of meeting and let it be known it may only be 1/2 or less than the 70% and Dan the Man was just the person to deliver for England.
Maybe the politicians in the room didn't understand we will tolerate NO rate increase.
The Sewer Board has a budget, I guess (though I AM beginning to wonder) and let it lay at their feet.
If I heard the word malfeasance of office once I heard it 25 times. Should say a lot Daniel.
Referendum being drawn up to do away with the Mayoral position and simply have a Town Manager is being worked on as we speak.
Another ? Can the Council FIRE the sewer board or not?
Dan misled the audience about EMC. The City was spending $5million to run it and EMC is spending what, 2.5? Details, Details. History.
Hey Chris, if you already have a cost saving (what is it called a low flush toilet be careful your laterals don't back up.
Devil is in the details ladies and gentlemen. Luckily, some of us know the details. Night. Thanks for letting me voice my opinion of the meeting, Shirley.
The "town hall" had potential, had.
I have been watching back over the vids I had taken this morning, and jotting down some notes to compare with figures and dates I can get my hands on.
As what was kind of ouched on before, how can Coffey ask for members of Government to give up part of their salary, and not be willing to do so himself. (again how much do we pay for health insurarnce for part time employees?)
Second, the crowd broke out in applause in support of the poilce and fire unions for being willing to pay for a forensic audit themselves, it was mentioned several times that our police force is undersized. But it wasnt long before the police started getting bashed for take home cars.
And the last point I want to make of last night, regarding what I have rewatched thus far, how can an elected representative sit up there and start an informational meeting by carrying on about a stretch of city sidewalk in front of a particular business, then move right in to bashing another two people for being on vacation in Florida. (subtly claiming that a council member and the mayor are vacationing together)
In my tired state last night, I had given the benefit of the doubt that the meeting was half way decent. reviewing the first 30 minutes of vids thus far has made me realize it was pretty much anything but.
It was a quasi-official public forum to grill a handful of people on mostly personal issues, not political issues.
The basic dismissal of the gentleman who questioned how our rates would be compared to other similar sized cities was evident that it was not a meeting to seek ansers of information, it was a meeting to tir up a hornets nest in advance of the meeting this evening (thursday).
Disheartening.
I attened and did not appreciate the dig Coffey made on our Senator Bayh.
I applaud Ms. Denhart for call Coffey a liar.
That was priceless and then Coffey back petalled.
Daniel S. I also did not agree with Dan attacking you. I truly believe you made an honest mistake and forgot.
Does anyone know who the gentleman on the front row in the suit was? I'm with him, we need to file a class action suit. And he also backed up that England had committed malfeases.
My understanding is there are a lot of things in motion by the little people.
Glad to see Kersey there last night. She sure knows her stuff.
I agree that the Feds should come investigate ...
... everyone's basement. After all, some of us know the facts, LOL.
Did the television crews ever show up? What about Sarah Palin?
Good meeting notes here: http://www.facebook.com/note.php?created&&suggest¬e_id=308884264332
Ta ta. See you in the funny papers or at the council meeting, whichever comes first.
Rate payers want zero rate increase until the books are open.
Yes, two news crews were there. Even Mildred Wilson II was there.
Check out Daniel's article in todays Tribune on line.
Coffey is worthless in my book.
"Does anyone know who the gentleman on the front row in the suit was? I'm with him, we need to file a class action suit. And he also backed up that England had committed malfeases.
My understanding is there are a lot of things in motion by the little people.
Glad to see Kersey there last night. She sure knows her stuff."
The Gentleman in the suit was not calling for a lawsuit against england. (Ive got the video if you want it)
He wanted to know how our rates would compare to other similar sized cities, to which when asked, Mr. Coffey back petalled and tried to compare us to the city of Louisville and MSD (no comparison at all)
He did mention that IF, after obtaining such comparisons, IF those comparisons showed that we were paying an much much higher rate than similar sized cities, then action should be taken IF there is evidence of wrong doing.
Again, I have it recorded if you want a massive email of a 20 minute HD video, contact me.
Jameson wrote:
I don't think that they are directed at the staff reporting but what the Tribune puts in its paid editorial section. It is a reflection of the paper and after repeated columns by Roger, a few by Matt Nash, and the comment by Steve K. I can understand why Mr. Coffey would feel the way he does.
There's been much anguished screaming about this topic, but it really comes down to one consideration.
Has anyone asked the Tribune about writing a column, and been turned down?
If so, why the rejection?
If you speak with the staff at the newspaper, my guess is they'll tell you that there's no shortage of people wanting to write a column, but who will not abide by the necessity of placing their name alongside the content.
And, although I know it will not impress most of the anonymous spewers here, I think you're intelligent enough to understand that writing a column is hard work. It's one deadline after another, unceasing. Yes, I get paid, but not enough considering the quality of what I do and the time it takes to do it well.
It's human condition: Those who can't or won't envy those who can and will. Period.
Anyone who wishe to stand outside in the cold is doing so by choice, because the tent flap is open, and by this I'm not implying that you must adhere to a political viewpoint to write a column. Rather, you must assent to rules of civilized discourse.
Jameson, I know you had a dispute with the newspaper about publishing some of your submissions. You and I routinely disagree, but I assure you that if your rejections were somehow unfounded, I'd take up your case.
It's only when all sides of the issue are represented that we can have a meaningful discussion.
R
Jamison ask great questions. So did a lot of others. Dan needs to stop using other peoples research and acting like he is so very informed. He stop so many from informing others and people saw right through him.
It's time for Dan to go.
No more Dan, you need to let those who have the knowledge to put the real issues out there.
It's all about, where's the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Doug?
Thanks Yvonne for being there, where was Susan?
Anyone know when there will be a Public Meeting?
I was told three council members will not be there tonight. Can anyone verify and why not?
The little people will be out in full force tonight. The million dollar question is; will they allow them all too speak.
Yeah, escaping jail time does allow a person to get out more.
I personally do not feel bad for the young woman that bought her house and has to work three jobs to keep it. She completely understood her situation when she bought the house. The way that mortgage companys look at applicants now its amazing that they let her have a mortgage if she is scrapping the bottom of the barrell.
My house is a family of 2 and the sewer section of our bill is an average of 10 to 12 dollars a month. A 70% increase would only be 7 to 10 dollars extra a month. If a single person sewer bill is SO high that they are afraid they will lose their house over it, something is wrong.
The sewer bill is based off your water usage. If it is not within the normal range a meter is probably broken or another problem is in tow.
People need to understand that we have to pay the sewer bill. Its going to go up no matter what. Its if they have enough sense to actually figure out what the problem is.
Susan's husband won't let her get involved personally, but she was there in heart and spirit. She is simply not well enough to deal with the stress. I worry all the sewage the NAPP played in made her physically ill.
She's still sitting with us, holding our hand, and giving us the details and history and asking the hard questions. Some were relayed at the meeting.
As one person told me later in the evening at a local establishment, it's one thing to be called a liar but it's another thing to be labeled STUPID. Taxpayers/ratepayers have smartened up. Yeaaa.
better to default on our loans and lose our credit rating than to increase rates...
-tea partier
I'm sorry folks, I don't care how many jobs you have to work.
If you're being done in by $25 bucks a month then you have bigger issues than sewer rates.
Anon 3:08
Agreed!
I dont want a rate increase, but one is going to happen. I am interested in seeing how our rates stack up against other similar sized cities, both before and after any increases.
But as I had said before, sewage is based on water consumption, there are ways to limit how much this will effect them.
Also, has there been any definative answer as to how we stack up in the rate vs. cost department, wasn't there a little ditty from the state that rate can not be less than operational costs?
First phone call returned from Columbus, Indiana utilities.
An average family of 3 using 4000 gallons of water per month pays between $65-$76 dollars per month for sanitary sewers services.
Bloomington, Indiana comes in at $52.00 for the same usage.
Still waiting to hear back on Seymour.
How do these stack up against what the estimated bill would be for JUST SEWAGE (remember to take off trash and such for fair comparisons)
(this is ONLY the sewage cost, as told to me by persons at the following cities utilities billing offices, CITY OPERATED utilities billing)
Columbus, IN - between $65 to $76 per month
(this does not include the other monthly fees in that city such as trash, and water)
Bloomington, IN- quoted a rate of $52.07 per month for just the sewage on the utility.
Right now, for my family of three, we pay $40.08 per month to the city for all of the services and fees we are billed each month.
Waste water $20.16
Sanitation $15.75
Storm water $4.17
______
$40.08 total
If I were to add at most 70% to the $20.16 for waste water, that portion of my bill would raise to $34.27 (a whopping $14.11) bringing my entire bill up to $54.19.
Based on my families usage, our rates would be on par with Bloomingtons rate, and still less than Columbus' rate.
BUT if Clere's plan works and we only see a 35% increase, that would only equal a $7.06 increase.
COUNCIL MEETING---WHAT BULL---HERE IS AN OFFER YOU CAN'T REFUSE BUT WE HAVE TO HAVE IT SOON-----FIFER GETS ABOUT 80K FOR EVERY BOND REFINANCE IN ADDITION TO HIS RETAINER---HOW MANY DO THEY WANT TO REFINANCE???
Being a Facebook user I found Mr. Smith's take of the meeting to be a farce. No one called for England to go to jail. One person did point out the City WAS spending $5 million to operate the City which is why EMC was brought in at originally around 2.5 million. It was stated there was such stringent documentation required by the EPA which EMC prepares and our City absolutely cannot, there is a page which England signs under penalities of going to jail. Get the facts straight Smith.
Blood on a councilman's hands and his wife's? Print it where all the people can see it and see how much longer you stay in business with such blasphemy! U may be worse than Baylor but I suspect he gave u your cues as to how to act.
Glad u have the tape CD. What a bunch of baloney!
Please allow me to correct MYSELF. The City was spending $5 million to operate the Sewers, thus the professional services contract which DOES NOT HAVE TO BE BID.
80k per bond refinance seems excessive. Maybe you should double check that fact.
U may be worse than Baylor but I suspect he gave u your cues as to how to act.
That's funnier than Steve Price trying to speak English. Me give the Bookseller cues?
Don't make me spit up good beer, "Facebook user".
Yeah, I think Henderson got more than that; I'm thinking 400K (but I could be wrong; guess it depends on the bonds, any refinancing and money for his malpractice they all take).
Maybe Price could use EDIT funds to take his kids to Disney world.
Anon 11:07
"Glad u have the tape CD. What a bunch of baloney!"
Not 100% certain, but fairly close to that that statements were made that England needs to go to jail during the actual "town hall".
I do know that before the actual "town hall" that was a regularly repeated statements in the crowd, almost repeated as often as "you may have seen our red and white signs all over town".
If time permits this evening, (another trip to indy on my plate for today), I will try and find the point where I recall hearing that, and "transcribe" the section if you want, of course, when I get to that point I will be willing to email anyone the video to verify the quotes from the vids.
Honestly, though, after figuring up what impact even the worse case scenario would have on me, as well as figuring for my fixed income mother, and grandmother, I think this is a whole lot of hoopla over something that would have equalled the cost of about 3 gallons per gas per month, or 3 packs of smokes, one meal out, or God forbid, cutting back one teir level on satellite or cable TV.
Before making some easy calculations, I was concerned, but after implementing steps BEFORE this came down to reduce the water usage in my house, and after I called other similar sized cities to compare rates, I feel that the sensationalism over this issue is primarily just that, sensationalism for the sake of garnering a little lime light to provide an opportunity to have on encore of the same old song and dance on a new stage.
Harsh, maybe, but thats my opinion, and as so often pointed out to everyone, I am entitled to that. As far as facts, the numbers presented speak to that.
CAN SOMEONE FIND OUT WHAT WE ARE PAYING THE CROWE HORVATH FIRM TO DO THE SEWER FINANCE STUDIES ? WE NEED TO SEE THE CONTRACT PRICE OR LIST OF PAYMENTS PAID TO THEM.
WHY DIDN'T THIS FIRM CHECK WITH THE INDIANA FINANCE DEPT ABOUT THE REFINANCING THE BONDS TO HELP LOWER THE PROPOSED RATE HIKE ?
THANK YOU, SENATOR CLERE FOR DOING THIS WORK FOR US TO HELP KEEP THE RATE DOWN.
He's not keeping the rate down. He is just dragging it across a couple years rather than one.
Chris D. is right. We are responsible for how much our sewer bill cost. It is based on our water usage. Matt Nash pointed it out today as well in his Trib column.
People have cut their water usage down, so that is why sewer income is down.
Did anyone ask how many houses are in foreclosure? When/if those houses are sold at auction, won't those sewer bills be paid?
If NA sewers go into receivership, won't the bond holders be responsible to EPA, need to pay the fines, and do the paperwork?
Maybe (after 20 years), the sewers will finally be fixed.
Or sell the sewer utility and see what will happen. Those poor local attorneys and CPAs will loose a lot of their income.
Shirley Baird is a Baylor and doug England suckass, you dont stand a chance to get elected Shirley
boycott destinations booksellers see if he can pay his sewer bill with falling revenue, take baylor with you skinhead, the little people will buy you both a one way ticket to any commie country you choose
I don't think Randy sells many(if any)coloring books, so your boycott should have little impact.
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