The City Council meeting was not quite as long as I predicted. They adjourned a little after 9:00. But it certainly was entertaining, complete with presentations on color coded boards.
The first order of business was Resolution R-09-24 (The Master Plan) Maury Goldberg and Greg Sekula spoke in favor of it's passage. (I had done the same at a previous meeting and should have again tonight).
Jameson Bledsoe expressed concerns about the lack of information given out beforehand. As a developer he was afraid he might be passed over for consideration in favor of developers with deeper pockets. He said that small business people are at a disadvantage when planning "green" buildings because of the cost involved. Scott Wood addressed this issue a little later saying that no developers were pushed aside although some did drop out when the market took a dive.
After MUCH discussion the Resolution passed 7 aye's 1 abstain (Mr. Price) and 1 no (Mr. Coffey).
The rest of the agenda consisted mostly of Appropriation Resolutions, which basically means moving money from one fund to another.
The last item was an Ordinance to rezone 2 1/2 acres on State St. near Target from R2, residential to C2, general business, no problem.
The meeting got pretty lively during the time for city officials to speak. And speak they did. Mr. Price asked Mrs. Garry about several items in the budget including over payments, mileage logs, and cell phones. She replied that the over payments resulted when department heads turn in two claims for the same expense but that has been resolved. She went on to explain that she has no control over the mileage logs or cell phone usage. But that a police officer did repay a cell phone bill a few years ago due to personal use.
Just about everyone expressed their opinion on the audit. Mr. Coffey said it was incomplete, Mr. Price's concerns are mentioned above. Mr. Zurschmeide said he contacted Charlie Pride, the head of the State Board of Accounts. Mr. Pride explained that the audit was not politically motivated and the city cannot pay another accounting firm to duplicate this audit. Mr. Coffey said there was a disclaimer on the audit stating that it was not complete. Mr. Zurschmeide suggested that someone from the State Board of Accounts, preferably Mr. Pride come and meet with the council.
Mr. Coffey wants to meet the the council next Tuesday and Wednesday to go over the 2009 and 2010 budgets to see where cuts can be made. Mr. Gahan asked if this meant the budget would be rescinded. Mr. Coffey replied that the council is allowed to make changes.
Mayor England was visibly upset when he took the podium. He compared the discussions to a witch hunt. He also mentioned Mr. Pride and his quote in the Tribune where he stated that there was no money missing but New Albany needs a better computer system and the Controllers Office needs more employees.
He went on to say that the budget for 2010 will be 1.5 million short due to a decrease in property taxes and that the Governor told him that the cities need the LOIT tax to make up the difference. He urged the City Council to work with the County Council and the Commissioners to pass the LOIT tax, and added that that was the solution for Clark Co. Personally, from what I have seen the LOIT tax is about as popular as H1N1. He also added that the problem was not overspending but under funding.
There was more discussion but these are the main points. Stay tuned.
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146 comments:
when did bledsoe become a developer? flipping properties does not make you a developer.
also the masterplan does not prevent making new "old" buildings. new "old" buildings already are prevented under the preservation ordinance. the masterplan imposes no new requirements there.
Green development doesn't cost much more than traditional development either. As with any system, you can spend as much as you want. But, for example, passive solar cost no more than anything else. Once you add in all the government incentives, the cost to the developer often is equal both ways.
Shirley, Mr. Pride's words in your report don't sound like a smoking gun.
Council should call for an audit? Price says council can't.
Want to break the law some more, council members?
Roger,
You forgot to mention that Jameson Bledsoe was talking to the mayor at Studios tonight.
How can someone talk to Coffey and the mayor? That is absurd! Someone is having a seizure!
What a juvenile you are.
I see Charleston just un-presidented their council president. something for new albany?
There is a difference between public meetings and public involvement.
Tonight’s council meeting is public but there is no public input on a plan that was developed behind closed doors then brought to the city council.
The plan commission meetings are no different. Here is the plan we made up behind closed doors does the public have any comments then let’s vote.
Or
Let’s have three consecutive weeks where we take in public input on what they would like to have in a master plan. Then we will take that information and create a master plan with professional developers and the Plan Commission. Then we will publish it in the paper for all to see with a column explaining it and any questions that are valid concerns the public had made. After that is done we will seek public comment and make necessary changes. Then we will put it to the Plan Commission for a vote. Then we will take it to the council were further comments can be taken by the public and a vote had.
That is public involvement what we have in New Albany is not that.
Green development is a broad term. What some may call green development others would not.
Example, some call using an old building green because it is a reuse of material. Others would say that old buildings are too inefficient to heat and cool and are not green.
“new "old" buildings already are prevented under the preservation ordinance. “
There are different views people have about this. And I would disagree with Mr. Wood that it is accepted that people agree not to build new buildings that look old. I can understand why Mr. Tipperman believes this when he is a graduate of Ball State. Ball State teaches their students to think more contemporary or modern but schools like Notre Dame teach more classical approach to design.
Thank you for your notes, Shirley. Much appreciated without the commentary about who did what with whom, who yawned (seems to be 1 person's favorite word lately) lol.
& u r just getting started. Hang in there!
check out ball state's architecture program. they have the state's top historic preservation graduate program. you can't slam timperman for his views just because he went to ball state.
How are those calling to the Indiana State Police and Attorney General doing? Won't take you seriously. I guess they're in on the conspiracy too?
Historic preservation and design philosophy are very different. There is nothing wrong with Ball State’s or Mr. Tipperman’s philosophy it is just not shared by everybody.
All those late post-council nights on the street corner with Coffey surely must lead to something resembling obstructionism, don't you think?
To Anon at 7:14 am -- u seem to be the only person spouting these accusations. Do you know something we ought to know?
Keep twisting.
"To Anon at 7:14 am -- u seem to be the only person spouting these accusations. Do you know something we ought to know?"
You are the one who said you were going to call the state police and attorney general.
First, Doug England will never get the LOIT TAX passed. (That's a no brainer).
Second, some of you all posting on her thinks he done nothing wrong.
Thirdly, some of you need to stop making things personal and look at the real issues of our city.
I'm with Price, this isn't personal, this is about our $$$$$.
typo: here
no one said england's perfect. but if you're going to criticize the mayor, you need to get your facts straight.
also, i’m not saying two wrongs make a right, but if the council is going to criticize the mayor, they need to get their own house in order too. otherwise, i think the “pot calling kettle black” claims are natural.
Did England break the law? Is it the computer systems fault?
1:56 What is the council doing that is so wrong?
Just curious.
Did anyone listen to what Coffey said about the condo/apartment buildings next to river front park? You could of read it in the CS newspaper. They are auctioning those apartments off because no one is buying them.
If a city like Louisville with its size cannot fill a multilevel apartment/condo building how is New Albany suppose to?
Did the developers give any idea how much they will cost to rent or buy these places of dwelling?
What was the purpose of having the developers going before the council to ask if they can build an apartment building at no expense to the city? You have to ask the council to start a business now?
Does anyone know what the building is suppose to look like? I could not see any of the images the developer was showing the council.
there is very little transparency in some of New Albany's dealings.
Roger,
I think that your coverage of city council meetings is worse and as biased as Fox News covering today's top stories.
You put a lot of time and effort into typing your mind on a blog. Why not be progressive and actually do honest coverage of the council meetings.
At least be more specific when you are bashing council members. Instead of using vague descriptions why not tell everyone specifically what bothers you that he or she is doing as a council member. French fries, Disney Land, and spilled beer doesn't do much in light of everything.
Think Progressively.....in your commentary.
Which attorney advised England on the buying of the building on E 4th? Was it Shane Gibson? I'd like to know seeing he is planning on running for office. Thanks.
I agree, Federal Farmer.
river park place had a total of 84 units. about 68 units sold already at an average price of close to a million dollars. the developers are not taking a loss, even if every condo unit auctioned sells for a dollar.
is coffey betting his money? has anyone asked the city for city money? why does coffey care? coffey needs to stop making himself too like an idiot on such a regular basis.
COFFEY ALSO SAID NO ONE WOULD GO TO THE Y.M.C.A.
enough said.
bobo's plan is mainly retail, office and apartments. very few condos.
City monies will be requested for both developments let us at least be honest.
Because city monies will be requested everything needs to have genuine public input.
Some people like New Albany the way it is and seven story condos would change New Albany dramatically. We are not just talking about improving New Albany but we are talking about changing New Albany.
New Albany may need some help but there are still a lot of good things about New Albany as it is.
"Some people like New Albany the way it is and seven story condos would change New Albany dramatically."
some people will oppose anything. the eiffle tower was opposed at one point. "paris will never be the same."
the debate is over. 7-1 vote. it's part of the comprehensive plan.
this can be a major MONEY MAKER for the city. the TIF dollars that stay in the community will far outweigh the cost of serving the TIF bonds.
Yep, some people like the way New Albany is, including selected council persons, which is why they wanted to keep unequal districts the way they were rather than obey inconvenient documents of revolutionary change like the US Constitution.
If by "genuine public input" we mean complaining about having to follow rules already on the books, then all this makes sense. Call it Crupper envy with an Atlanta rash.
There were hearings and meetings aplenty. Coffey ignored them so he could grandstand with the VFW. Price ignored them so he could babble nonsensically about paying for a trip to Disneyland -- and then, incredibly, abstain.
Yawn.
actually coffey met with the developers and larry timperman back in february. they all met at the culbertson west. mose putney was there. carl and steve were there. mike kopp and carl malysz were there. did i mention dan coffey was there? none of this has been a secret.
coffey's credibility on downtown investment is ZERO.
he fought the YMCA. he'll fight EVERYTHING.
Grand Old Man
I agree with you.
I like New Albany and the direction it is taking. New Albany has changed a lot in the past 3 years, and it is continuing to do so.
Coming from a pure citizen standpoint, with no business pipe dreams, I'm content with the way New Albany is right now. Why do we need a grand master plan? Can't the city continue to improve without having multi-million dollar ideas?
The proposed Chrysler building that will house the condos will not only cost tax payers money, it will also change New Albany as a relaxed place as we now know it.
I understand from a business perspective this means nothing, and the all mightly dollar is most important.
I'M AGAINST EVERYTHING!
"There were hearings and meetings aplenty".
Yeah behind closed doors away from the full public.
If by "genuine public input" we mean complaining about having to follow rules already on the books, then all this makes sense. Call it Crupper envy with an Atlanta rash.
Means nothing from a hypocrite
timperman spoke to the council several times. the redevelopment commission voted on it. the planning commission voted on it a couple months ago. those meetings were all open.
the plan was publicly available before any of those meetings. it was even published in the tribune a couple weeks ago.
the council approved it 7-1. claims of "behind door meetings" as preposterous.
is each citizen supposed to get a crayola and draw on a map until everyone gets their line? no, that would lead to chaos.
sour grapes.
Didn't we learn anything from the cultural revolution from the 1960s? You can't force a women to have sex, it's ethically wrong. It's better to naturally caress her, and allow time and patients for her to naturally come around to the plan.
Is big money trying to force New Albany?
I'M AGAINST MORE THAN YOU ARE!
Anon 11:34 “those meetings were all open” “claims of "behind door meetings" as preposterous.”
Yes there were public meetings but they didn't include public input only public comment. It is not hard to see the difference.
Now tell me this, how much public input went into the creation of the master plan? Answer none.
Read the Master Plan yourself it was posted in the paper after the resolution was tabled and after the editor criticized Coffey for running a 1930's style government. If it wasn't for the delay the paper would have never ran the plan and people would have never seen the parts were it says privately people got together at the library and started planning. Not until a few months later, with a plan, did they take it to the city. It was late into the process, and after the resolution was tabled, when they publicly displayed it.
When the city is involved, for anything, it should start with open public input.
DNA is not a public input.
I see now that certain people in this city like their hegemony.
"is each citizen supposed to get a crayola and draw on a map until everyone gets their line? no, that would lead to chaos."
NO, that’s not chaos, it is just representation.
I would love for each citizen to get their equal input and representation.
I take it you don't. That’s sad
I love all this, because what it's really about is disdaining the education and abilities of the capable in the name of "democracy" or some such nonsense.
Let's get all the little people together into a committee and let them design a nuclear power plant. What's that? None of them have been trained to do so? Hey, no problemo -- they merely translate uninformed opinion into radioactivity, and voila, we have cheap power for all the Chinese goods sold at Wal-Mart. And Dan Coffey can play the role of Homer Simpson.
Peachy, eh?
I would love for each citizen to get their equal input and representation.
Fact: Citizens are represented by their council members.
Fact: Those citizen representatives of ours voted for it.
"I love all this, because what it's really about is disdaining the education and abilities of the capable in the name of "democracy" or some such nonsense."
Except for a few years, "capable" Carl Malysz has been active in planning, since the 1970s. The wishes of the "developers" were carried out. Been there, done that. So who guided this Master Plan and why? Find out who is going to benefit the most and who is going to pay. What is it "they" say?
Follow the money.
Go head, follow the money. Follow ever last penny. Oh wait, they haven’t spent a penny yet. THERE HAS BEEN NO CITY MONEY ALLOCATED TO THIS. Good luck following the trail.
Go head, complaint to the attorney general. File a lawsuit. Let everyone see what joker you are.
Who owns those pieces of property? (Love those LLC). When did they buy them? Never find out how much was paid.
Would any you bitching about "input" on the masterplan have went to an initial meeting? You don't show up for meetings of the city council. Quit acting like you care.
Hitting a nerve, are we?
Maybe no public comments are allowed because someone doesn't want to hear what the public thinks. (No one likes that idea? Why I didn't hear anyone say that). Just steam roll over anyone in the way to help the "chosen" few.
C'mon, IAH, of course they "care."
They "care" to shift their own failures onto the backs of those who can.
Here's a literary hint: If you feel that way, you're not Hank Reardon. You're James Taggart.
Bad news for Li'l Stevie: That's from a non-comic book.
the city owns most of the property. steve and carl (not malysz, the other carl) own part of the other property. want to know what they paid for it? go to the auditor's office. it's public record.
what other conspiracy theories you have? you seem to be pretty light on the facts for someone so sure there's a conpiracy.
Fact: Citizens are represented by their council members.
Fact: Those citizen representatives of ours voted for it.
That is a really bad idea. Let’s all quit being involved and stay home and let the elected officials vote without our feelings on matters.
Democracy is at its best when citizens are involved. Look up the meaning. Being a “citizen” is a right that people take for granted.
"Would any you bitching about "input" on the masterplan have went to an initial meeting? You don't show up for meetings of the city council. Quit acting like you care."
Yes I would of went to an initial meeting but it was not for the public. And I do go to as many council meetings that I can attend and then some.
citzens being involved doesn't mean we do whatever only the naysayer citizens suggest.
" I love all this, because what it's really about is disdaining the education and abilities of the capable in the name of "democracy" or some such nonsense.
Let's get all the little people together into a committee and let them design a nuclear power plant. What's that? None of them have been trained to do so? Hey, no problemo -- they merely translate uninformed opinion into radioactivity, and voila, we have cheap power for all the Chinese goods sold at Wal-Mart. And Dan Coffey can play the role of Homer Simpson.
Peachy, eh?"
Peachy, Roger you don't want a democracy you are asking for a plutocracy or an oligarchy. The rule by the few.
If you had it your way, you, and your progressive hate group wouldn't even be allowed to participate.
But we do see your true feelings, and your actions of hate are read more clearly now.
You're right, Mark.
The entire planning process started with a public meeting specifically seeking that input last October. Interested residents continued communication with officials afterward.
When an initial draft was finished, there was another meeting in February to present it. The public was welcome and was again allowed to speak, comment, express concerns, etc. Everyone who attended responded positively.
Then, a public hearing on the plan was held in September prior to the first governmental (Redevelopment) vote on it.
In addition to speaking opportunities at subsequent plan commission and council meetings, information about the above mentioned meetings was advertised and reported by the Tribune. The ongoing development of the plan has been in the news for over a year. The land areas in question and public officials involved were repeatedly named.
There was ample opportunity for public input into the riverfront master plan.
The city council adopted and approved the measure. There was more than ample time for people to express concern to their representatives via telephone, email, letters, as well as in person.
Coming out damning the measure AFTER the fact and opportunity to oppose the measure is about retarded.
My only reservation is concern for what little greenspace and trees we have left downtown, other than that, built the holy hell out of, create jobs, create housing, bring in more people, build a riverfront plaza.
It sures the hell worked out pretty damn good for Newport, Ky.
To 11/3 12:37 pm - Not on here. You are the only spouting same. Do you have a problem?
May lead one to think you are trying to hijack the issues and the commentary Shirley provided about Council. Strange!
Council should get in order? How about the Admin providing Council with proper documentation each month concerning the monies so they can make an informed decision. Goes both ways.
I for one believe Council should not have city insurance; should only be for full-time employees.
I for one am happy the City has been told to keep a log of cell phones and use of cars. How long has the public been calling for same?
The Master Plan concerns Price's representation area. He has every right to vote no, or to abstain.
I for one question how Carl & Steve have not sold the Parthenon, have not sold the Widow's mansion, etc., even though they have gone to auction after attempting private sales. How does this make them successful enough to be major players in the Master Plan.
Have the condos sold located on E 6th, between the flood wall and the RR tracks? Have the condos sold next door to Destinations?
I have a lot of questions about things already remodeled, newly built, etc., before we put more eggs in a basket, with our monies.
Excuse me for thinking so, but I do have the right whether the Progressives like it or not.
Hang in there Mr. Price. Keep insisting on getting the financial information. We appreciate it.
Now, I'll just sit back and wait until I'M attacked, lol.
Wonders upon Wonders.
Green is my favorite crayola. Let's not make it personal folks.
Personal? LOL. Now, that is funny, though I thank you for not attacking me.
Not sure how Carl M. can say Georgetown having a sewer has no impact on New Albany. I'm still laughing over that 1, 2. Glad the Trib called him out over it. Then again, Carl doesn't really care about sewers, or stormwater. That is how I feel, personally. Observations over the years and years.
I'M AGAINST GREEN CRAYOLA.
I have tapes of green crayola. Just wait until the green crayola audit comes out!
You're right it was voted it's done so be it.
I still think it's a pipe dream for local business.
Does anyone have any idea what it is suppose to look like? Is there a link to see the Master Plan?
Of course it would be nice to see all of these things materalize and work in an ideal way. I don't want to get too excited, and just be disappointed later on.
Do you all think a 7 story condo/apartment complex will change the social economics of downtown New Albany? How many people do you think can live in the building total?
Newport is a good example, but it is right across from a city that is larger than Louisville. Jeffersonville is our Newport to Louisville.
more later...
You're right it was voted it's done so be it.
I still think it's a pipe dream for local business.
Does anyone have any idea what it is suppose to look like? Is there a link to see the Master Plan?
Of course it would be nice to see all of these things materalize and work in an ideal way. I don't want to get too excited, and just be disappointed later on.
Do you all think a 7 story condo/apartment complex will change the social economics of downtown New Albany? How many people do you think can live in the building total?
Newport is a good example, but it is right across from a city that is larger than Louisville. Jeffersonville is our Newport to Louisville.
more later...
Do you all think a 7 story condo/apartment complex will change the social economics of downtown New Albany? How many people do you think can live in the building total?
It doesn't have to change everything to be a net positive.
Estimates are for about 170-180 residential units. That includes the apartments and condos, big units and little units. Starting price in the mid-100s, I believe. That's about the price of a new construction starter home in Georgetown or Jeffersonville.
I don't know anyone my age who lives in the Highlands or Clifton area who can drop $150,000 on an apartment size condo, say 850 sq ft right?
You've got me thinking now....
Why don't developers, hell it doesn't even have to be developers just ordinary business owners in downtown New Albany try and revamp all the 2nd and 3rd floor potential apartments they have? I know there are a few right now, but not the kind of scale that makes me think there are going to be lines of people trying to get into an expensive 7 story condo.
Has anyone considered a strong effort in renovation? Take what we already have in New Albany; homes and apartment places, and refurbish them? It will be way more inexpensive then building multimillion dollar buildings.
I think a wise decision would be to first take what you already have and make it better before buying more. We have committed a lot of money to something we already have, space for people to live in.
If the 2nd floors of New Albany were teaming with renters I would then understand a need for multimillion dollar condos.
The reason there isn't renters in those 2nd floor is because no one has put the money and effort in them. I do give props to Steven Beardsley, he did a great job on his 2 apartments on Pearl St.
by the way I'm 28 years old, and no I could not afford a 1 bedroom condo for $150,000 when I could rent a 2 bedroom apartment with a garage for $350 which includes utilities.
I live in an older carriage house, and there are plenty around me that could be much nicer if someone had some money and luster.
There will still be slummy parts of New Albany even if you stick the Chrysler building at the end of Pearl St. Haven't you been to Detroit before?
Nice try Roger, you need females to come to Bank St.
How are you suppose to pick up chicks when only old bitter dudes hangout there?
Someone asked me, and I don't know the answer: Do they have Internet in jail?
NAC why do you ask? You seem to be getting good ar hacking computers.
Right, Yvonne?
HA!
Her computer hacked by an outsider? Laughable!
Maybe it was her in a drug induced trance!
If a fake professor and a drug dealer are your “credible witnesses,” you got a problem!
Leave Y out of it. Her estranged husband is in jail, not her.
And, you probably won't see her there, either. Much to some people's chagrin. Kick them when they are up, kick them when they are down.
She will speak when she's ready, and I am sure she has some things to say.
Some simply have to deviate from the issues at hand and get personal. Guess they don't have anything better to do. Hang in there Y.
2:13 just ignore the bully's here.
Ya'll brought her up trying to slander Baylor, didnt ya?
I guess its acceptable to do so against some, but don't dare do it to others huh? Nice way to show your unending double standards and hypocrisy.
Does anyone want to discuss why the 2nd and 3rd floors of New Albany's downtown is not filled with renters?
Perhaps this will give some clairvoyance as to how well a multimillion dollar building is capable of finding inhabitants.
Yes, hang in there Y. You'll probably like jail, lots of people like you in there. Is your boyfriend planning to wait for you?
FedFarm,
To my knowledge, I dont think many of the building owners offer this as an option do they?
Yell, ask him about how us taxpayers paid for his bar patio. He can dish it out, but he sure can't take it.
Good Lord and a side order of biscuits and gravy!
When are people going to simply let that chunk of concrete go? Is it really worth that much commotion?
Is that fundamentally any worse than people that put out more than their fair share of tree branches and debris for pick up by the street department? Which do you think costs more?
Is it any worse than people who blow their leaves into the rain gutters on the street, causing localized flooding, and extra trips by the street sweeper?
What about people who call the police everytime a neighbors dog barks, using up extra cop gas, and monies spend on manhours wasted on such trivial calls?
Is it any worse than frivolous lawsuits filed by certain elected officals against the city they are paid by, costing us thousands upon thousands of dollars in legal costs (for both plaintiff and defendants?)
If we are going to point fingers about such trivial things, lets point at all of it?
Or we could simply follow the rule of "let he who has not sinned..."
Seriously
The NABC Taxpayer's Memorial Partio is so named because no taxpayer money was used to pay for it. Rather, children in Bangladesh sent their hard earned rupees out of sympathy that local government could be so cold. I didn't have the heart to tell them that Dubya is gone.
I'm not sure what New Albany Democrats were thinking when they voted England back in. England appears to be as clueless about what he was doing as a fart in a windstorm.
Roger that was you best column I have read so far and I would go as far as saying it was the best column I read in the Tribune.
It was Great.
I hope to see more.
It seems to me local democrats are uneasy it's because they see no change in the way England does business.
What did they THINK would happen? Doug knows what he is doing and is purposely using deceit to advance his own agenda. Can you believe he blamed it all on the computer system.
"the expenses of a war are the moral check which it has pleased the Almighty to impose on the ambition and the lust of conquest that are inherent in so many nations".
Gladstone
"advance his own agenda"
Can anyone TRULY name many politicians who do not do this?
Again, this is a generality. The majority of politicians are not in it for "the people", they are in it to further their own agendas.
It has been the same song and dance since P.M. Dorsey, the rumors of Wm. L Sanderson's involvement of the cover-up regarding the Reno gangs lynching, Robert Brooks one year in office all the way through Nash, Real, Overton, Garner, and England.
And it will be the same song and dance for one reason or another for the next 47 mayors of New Albany, just as it has been for the last 47.
Does anyone want to discuss why the 2nd and 3rd floors of New Albany's downtown is not filled with renters?
Perhaps this will give some clairvoyance as to how well a multimillion dollar building is capable of finding inhabitants.
Beardsley has eight units downtown and he always has a deep waiting list for an apartment.
Price only votes his own agenda. He's a landlord. Price will not vote for anything that:
1. Assist affordable home ownership.
2. Places fines for renting slum units.
3. Requires registration of rental units.
Price will approve using city money to set up a Transfer Station that lowers costs for landlords at taxpayer expense.
Taxpayers' Memorial Transfer Station?
I'm not sure what New Albany Democrats were thinking when they voted England back in.
Funny, but I was trying to figure out what New Albanians registered as Democrats were thinking when they voted for John McCain last year.
They weren't thinking (was it really?) as anything remotely approximating a Democrat, which is why we get the spectacle of the Conjoined Councilmen calling themselves Democrats while animated by brain chemistry that screams out "Republican."
According to the CJ this morning, Jeff's sewer rates are set to DOUBLE shortly and QUADRUPLE in 5 years or so. Going to cost $100+ million to fix. Man, they must have a bunch of scum sucking, lying, cheating, thieving politicians and public servants over there.
Or, maybe it's an old city, with old infrastructure that has not been upgraded and properly maintained over the years--in order to keep rates low and now the pigeons are coming home to roost.
Nah, just a bunch of crooks. It's easier and more fun to think of it that way.
IAH, read the comments on the CJ article. People are talking about buying outhouses. Wasn't that Coffey's plan? :) Price supports it too, I bet.
Thanks, had not thought about the online comments. I read the story in a "real" newspaper this morning. I'm kinda old fashioned.
Congratulations Roger, I hear Bank Street Brewhouse will receive an award from the state at the Capitol next week.
Latest FOS Slope:
Let's hope the Republicans revitalize on a national level between now and 2010, but they do have Obama and the Democrats going for them regardless.
JUST ADMIT IT "PROFESSOR ERIK," YOU ARE A REPUBLICAN.
A Republican who pretents to be a man and who supports Hillary for no apparent reason. Are you insecure about your gender? I can't think of another reason why you support Hillary. You and Hillary have no political views in common.
I'm still waiting for Part 2 of "Worst Audit We've Ever Seen." Waiting for the state auditor to change his tune and actually say something damning for a change?
Slope = Slop
Unless the professor teaches geometry too.
GLAD YOU MENTIONED REPUBLICAN'S. I HEARD JACK MESSER IS LEAVING THE DEMOCRAT PARTY AND BECOMING A REPUBLICAN. I TALKED WITH DAVE MATTHEWS AND HE SAID THE REPUBLICAN'S DIDN'T WANT HIM EITHER.
TOO FUNNY.
3:42 Have you read the audit? Do you understand it? Because if you understood it, you should be outraged.
Since you won the award Mr. Baylor and your just a co-owner, will the others be going with you to Indianapolis?
btw, how many other businesses were up for the award?
Strange thing is, you haven't been in the (bar) business that long.
something tells me you were "outraged" before you read the audit. and yes, i read it too.
regarding bank street brewhouses's award, there were nominations from about twenty organizations across the state. of course, many businesses operate in indiana cities and towns, any of which could have been nominated. you must be going something right even to be nominated. but to answer your question, how many businesses were were up for the award, well, how many businesses are in indiana towns?
Some people appear more interested in the betterment of the City while some appear more interested in bashing others.
Anonymous said...
Since you won the award Mr. Baylor and your just a co-owner, will the others be going with you to Indianapolis?
Anyone and everyone should go. Co-owners, Councilman Cappuccino, Li'l Stevie -- heck, let's take a caravan.
btw, how many other businesses were up for the award?
Since the bribe I had to pay Mitch Daniels for this honor was dependent on outbidding other businesses ... hmm, let's say 4 or 23. Something like that.
Strange thing is, you haven't been in the (bar) business that long.
You're right. Only 17 years, with 9 years of package store experience before the bar. But who cares about all that? Let's have a number. This one goes out to Erika ... how 'bout some Gershwin, tigress?
Oh, sweet and lovely lady, be good
Oh, lady, be good to me
I am so awf'ly misunderstood
So lady, be good to me
Oh, please have some pity
I'm all alone in this big city
I tell you I'm just a lonesome babe in the wood,
So lady be good to me.
does Professor Erik own even 1% of a business? any business? hot-dog stand? anything?
We agree. No interest in the City except backing up the Admin.
They can not understand the numbers, thus the pooh pooh.
Can not or will not answer any of the hard, rational questions put to them.
well then apparently the state auditor doesn't understand his own audit either.
what about pride's statements of "no funds missing" and "nothing out of the ordinary" do you not understand?
Nor the Fire Department, right? LOL
What about the part where he couldn't find the documentation to back up the claims and no bank reconciliation, etc.?
Blow it off. We do not care.
let me repeat. what about pride's statements of "no funds missing" and "nothing out of the ordinary" do you not understand?
do you think the state auditor is "just blowing it office"?
"just blowing it off"?
When you don’t understand that wealth, success and influence is obtained by:
- hard work,
- intelligence,
- innovation,
- taking calculated risks, and
- earning people’s trust,
and when you’re someone who is:
- careless with facts,
- disdainful of education,
- refuses to innovate,
- refuses to take risks, and
- bends the truth,
of course you’re not going to understand why others are successful and you are not.
And when you don’t attribute success to the factors at the top, you’ll attribute it to:
- corruption
- favoritism
- cheating and
- stealing.
That’s not how the world works.
If for example some local professor wants to work with people, build successful relationship, be influential, he needs to earn people's trust. Misstating facts, staying reclusive, and...oh yeah...not existing, doesn't earn people's trust. Those professors will always fail.
Let see, since the city's records show $527,000 more than the bank records, I guess the rationale for some of you here is that the city has gotten another windfall.
if that's all the proof we need, then just shut up and call the FBI for goodness sakes.
let me repeat, pride's statement of
"nothing out of the ordinary" FOR NEW ALBANY. do you not understand?
"no funds BELIEVED to be missing" do you not understand?
he was unable to state for certainty that no money was missing and combined with the other serious problems found he had to issue a negative opinion. do you not understand?
here is pride's written statement
FINANCIAL REPORT OPINION MODIFICATIONS
The State Board of Accounts was unable to provide an unqualified opinion on the Independent
Auditors' Report for the financial statements due to the following deficiencies:
1. Cash reconcilements performed were incomplete.
2. Financial records did not contain all the financial transactions pertaining to the City.
3. Numerous journal entries for transfers and correction of errors were made without supporting
documentation.
These deficiencies resulted in a qualified opinion being issued for the audit period.
Accounting records and other public records must be maintained in a manner that will support
accurate financial statements. Anything other than an unqualified opinion on the Independent Auditors'Report on the financial statements may have ADVERSE FINANCIAL CONSEQUENCES with the possibility of an INCREASE IN INTEREST RATE COST TO THE TAXPAYERS of the governmental unit.
i wish you understood what audits are and what they are not. audits never check everything. the most thorough check maybe 10% of all document and use statistical sampling. audit report always use words to hedge since they never check everything. this document said again and again that it was extremely limited in scope, more limited than most audits. they didn't find certain things because they didn't go looking for them.
and nowhere did pride was nothing unusual "for new albany."
but please don't waste any more of my time, your time, shirley's time. please just go file your damn lawsuit or call the attorney general, the FBI or CIA who whoever! just do it. if you are so confident that england or someone else stuffed their pockets with citizen's money, then go public and/or call the authorities. do it! do it! do it! pull the trigger or shut up.
"this document said again and again that it was extremely limited in scope, more limited than most audits. they didn't find certain things because they didn't go looking for them."
LIES LIES LIES....it never said these things about the financial statements.
you are the one who needs to learn about audits. call mr pride and learn a thing or two or you just shut up.
Sounds like if the audit was limited and found all the things it did, then it is scary to think of all the things that would be found if it wasn't limited. We need to find out what all is going on then.
if the audit were so damning, and if the audit so clearly showed illegality, then why haven't england and garry been arrested yet?
...oh, i know why. because the state doesn't think the audit shows criminal activity. that's why no arrests!
any more faux accountability?
to anonymous. baring your explanation of any criminal activity and limited audit, do you really think that this was a good audit report and it is not worth discussion for required changes to be made?
if you owned a business and this was the results of your audit, would you find this report acceptable?
asking tough but fair questions is good.
pointing the finger before having all the information is bad.
So what several of you are saying unless money is missing England should not be proscuted or held accountable for violating Indiana State Laws?
What happens if England has broken laws and committed malfeasance?
You want to nail slum lirds for violations but not the mayor.
typo: slum lords
Kay Garry should be fired!
how difficult is "innocent until proven guilty" to understand?
where has anyone here said england should not be held accountable if he stole money? NO ONE HAS WRITTEN ANYTHING LIKE THAT!
what has been written again and again and again and again is that before you find him guilty, you need proof and apparently most people, including the state auditor, don't thing the audit is proof.
Charlestown got rid of their council president last week?
Did Jeffersonville get rid of its council president this week?
Again, are you saying this is a good audit? I'm not asking about criminal activity.
Why is that so difficult for you to answer?
You keep wanting to avoid the actual audit and talk about criminal activity. We understand your point on that. What we don't understand is do you really feel this is a good audit. One you would be proud of if it was an audit of a business you owned.
What does professor "Erik" propose we do to fix deficiencies in the accounting system?
Another audit might help you understand a little better what happened. It won’t fix the problem. The real solution depends on what you consider to be the problem.
If you consider the problem to be a lazy or incompetent controller, then the only “fixed” is a new controller. However, from virtually all accounts, Garry does a good job.
If you consider the problem to be poor internal controls, those are fixed by better systems, more staff, better training and better computers. Those costs money.
It sounds like the next step is not another audit but is to hire a consultant who analyzes and sets up cash management, reporting and control systems.
The first step should be acknowledgement of the problem. Until the administration acknowledges they have a problem then there is no since in spending money on something they do not consider a problem or have a desire or intent on correcting. The items noted in the audit report are not by most people's standards minor bookkeeping errors and cannot all be blamed on a clunker computer system.
Once there is acknowledgment and a commitment by the administration to fix these problems, then real solutions should be explored and if they involve spending money, it would certainly be more acceptable to people if they knew things were actually going to get fixed.
Any solutions should provide specific goals/objectives with set timelines in meeting those objectives, ways to measure the progress of those objectives, and yes .. people need to be held accountable with consequences if the objectives are not met.
Anyone in the administration ready to step up with real leadership and acknowledge the problem and hold themselves accountable in getting these problems fixed?
Next time a street needs paving, THIS is what we should do about the sewers.
Besides offering a rich visual texture to the streetscape, these pavers feature a clipped corner that allows rainwater the chance to slowly seep into the ground instead of rushing to the city’s overburdened sewer system.
http://brokensidewalk.com/2009/11/06/liberty-green-knows-how-to-pave-a-street/
Every single year our non-profit is audited, by a company contracted by the Indiana Department of Health.
Every year, case after case of daily financial sheets, mileage reimbursments, cash and credit reimbursments, accounts payable receipts, accounts receivabel receipts.
And every year 7 people do this audit for about 2 weeks, calculators clacking and printing, pencils churning, and sheet after sheet of paper shuffled through, unboxed, examined, reboxed.
We have a CFO that is completely ANAL about every red cent, every receipt, if a person farted on their wallet and then gave us a dollar bill out of that wallet, she could tell you what they had for lunch.
And guess what, ever year, year after year there are red flags raised, there are tough questioned asked, and there are items reveived under a microscope by the powers that be in Indy. New procedures are handed down, new software is recommended.
When the annual audit narrative is released, there are those on our financial advisory board who interprit the report as though we are misappropiating funds, and transversley there are those who read the report and the underlying data to see that no funds were misappropriated, its the totality of the circumstance.
Every year the CFO, CEO and myself are grilled by the financial advisory board, and asked tough questions by the Board of Directors, and every year we are given a pat on the back, and every year HRSA,ISDH & HHS, "pass" us on the audit.
When these reports are issued following our results, a person COULD in theory take snippets from these audits and make it look as though we have misappropriated, or just plain lost upwards a hundred grand or more. This can be accomplished with out taking into consideration the enitre report.
I personally have not read the audit for the City of New Albany, and quite frankly I have no desire to do so.
Just as our agency has oversight of our audits and the reports that are generated from them, the oversight is conducted by State and Federal Government, along with our financial advisory board, and Board of Directors, not to mention the auditors themselves.
I feel that the city of New Albany is required by law, to have many of the same oversight mechanisms in place, just different Govt. Agencies, IF there is actual wrong doing, or an indication of such, even in a partial audit, then there ARE systems in place to investigate, and take corrective action, whether that is in the form of financial action, or judicial action.
This report is being used as a political tool, nothing more. Falling into the debate trap is exactly what is wanted. If the person(s) that are so unhappy with every action / inaction by the England administration can plant even a single seed of doubt into the minds of readers of blogs like this, then they can possibly take votes away for a mayor who has not even given the slightest indication of running again for another term.
Let the system do as the system was designed to do, and let the ones who want to try and manipulate the data to their own means, with out the qualifications to do so, let them have their fun, if nothing else so that they can get a sense of self satisfaction.
This report is being used to stroke some egos much the same as a playboy is used to... well I'll let you finish that sentence.
I love it, "another windfall", LOL, LOL. It doesn't matter to those blowing the audit off. They simply do not understand financials either.
To hell with Bank Reconciliation (one of the easiest things about the financials) and to hell with having claims to back up monies spent. WE HAVE GOTTEN YOUR DRIFT. You do not care. Thank you very much for your opinion, as opiniated as it is.
It is amazing to me some think we are critizing the audit so England can't get reelected. Now THAT'S FUNNY 2, LOL. He's got a while to go, LOL.
Go ask the firemen and police. No one has said anything about them wanting to look at the books.
Kick it any way you want to, we have a problem BIRDSONG! And, yes, we would like to know if the problem is REALLY going to be fixed before we throw MORE money at this admin.
Darn it! Get a grip. Gee whiz.
P.S. Correction -- criticizing...
Anon 11:55.
You type lots of insults but no solutions.
Pathetic.
U don't want to hear anyone's suggestions for improvements. There aren't any problems where u may be concerned.
THE WORSE AUDIT WE'VE EVER SEEN ~ PART 2
while he/she never claims to be a professor of grammar, Erik/Erika should know simple rules like the difference between worse/worst. I was going to give him/her the benefit of the doubt but after 2 misspelled headlines I believe it is more than a typo.
It's the administration's place to come up with solutions and fix the problem, not the bloggers. Until then taxpayers should be able to voice their opinions about the problems occuring and about them not being fixed. The administration is the only one that has the ability and power to correct them.
It's the administration's place to come up with solutions and fix the problem, not the bloggers. Until then taxpayers should be able to voice their opinions about the problems occuring and about them not being fixed.
Gee, there's no difference between saying that and saying:
I don't know if it's humanly possible to have better a accounting system without spending money but I'm going to scream, bitch and point fingers until the administration does something that might not be humanly possible. Oh, and I'm not going to try to help them find a solution either.
Solutions to those problems are mute until there is acknowledgment of the problem by those who have the power and responsibility to correct them. You can't help the unwilling.
Some people may think that the Administration is not listening but I believe they are, whether they like what we say or not.
We elected these people and we can "un-elect" them in 2011. They know this and so they listen. We have a lot more power than we give ourselves credit for sometimes.
I don't agree with every comment made on this or any other blog but I respect your opinions. And I say keep yelling even if they pretend they don't hear you!
3:57 I read the proof on FOS and even took the time to read all 73 pages. So who needs to shut up now. It's true every last word on FOS. Hats off to Erik and I agree, no one should be above the law.
Not even Doug England.
6:29 what are you smoking? Garry does a good job. If you or I break the law what happens? Ot's our money people. In order to fix a problem you have to admit you have one. We are talking Indiana State laws folks. Get a grip and stop turning a blind eye or making excuses for England.
Anon 1 wrote:
Again, are you saying this is a good audit? I'm not asking about criminal activity.
Why is that so difficult for you to answer?
You keep wanting to avoid the actual audit and talk about criminal activity.
Anon 2 wrote:
Hats off to Erik and I agree, no one should be above the law.
Not even Doug England.
Now, I will presume that Anon two is "Erik's" ghostwriter, to put it politely.
When Anon says Anon's not talking about breaking the law, and then Anon says English's not above the law and should go to jail, ind of heard to have a real discussion.
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