Friday, January 22, 2010

COUNCIL MEETING 1/21/10

The agenda has changed since the last council meeting. Now the Mayor and city officials speak before the general public.

Mayor England began by thanking Mr. Coffey and Ms. Benedetti for their service as President and VP during 2009. He then congratulated Mr. Gonder and Mr. McLaughlin on their elections as President and VP for 2010.

He then got down to business discussing the possible closing of a fire station and/or laying off personnel. He asked the council to schedule a work session for Febuary 5, a Saturday, to discuss the $2,000,000 appropriation for the fire and police depts. before they have a final vote.

He then advised that the State of the City address will take place in March. There will be a press release also. Additionally there will be a press release concerning the 6.7 million for the SEJ rehab. The city plans to tear down 40 dilapidated homes and use 10 lots already owned and build 50 homes. The plan is to sell them for $120,000 to $130,000 to single families. They cannot be purchased for investment ie. rental property.

During the city official discussion Mr. Price said that the 5.2million borrowed from the Sewer Utility needs to be paid back before the sewer rates are raised. Mrs. Garry advised him that the loan was paid back in 2004. He also questioned the Mayor's comment that the police and fire dept. are underfunded, he said a union representative told him they had received a better contract than they had requested. A representative from the fire dept. said they received a raise of about $6.80 per month more than they requested and the police received the same.

During the comments from the public several people asked for help from last year's flood. Some people said the city had made promises which were not kept. Mr. Caesar said the Stormwater Board will meet next Thursday 1/28 at 10:00 to reveal the preliminary master plan to address this problem. Attny Shane Gibson spoke before the vote was taken on the $400,000 appropriation and asked that their be an amendment to give at least $200,000 to the Stormwater Board to dredge creeks and fix the culverts and other "micro projects". The amendment was passed 9-0. The final vote on the appropriation was 8-1 with Mr. Price voting against.

As of yet, the council does not yet have a full time attorney. The ordinance was tabled until a committee could meet and work out the details.

At this time it was 9:30 and I had to leave since I work early in the morning. If anyone stayed until the end please give us the details of the rest of the meeting.

118 comments:

Anonymous said...

Our family would like to 'thank' Donnie Blevins for leading the Lord's Prayer at last night's Council meeting.

Anonymous said...

I know of an Islamic cleric that will give the invocation next time.

Anonymous said...

Playing politics with religion is sinful.

Anonymous said...

playing religion with politics is unconstitutional

Iamhoosier said...

Well, you did make it few minute longer than I did!

Mark

The New Albanian said...

I'm trying to imagine those last agonizing moments as Donnie awaited the final cell phone call that would convince him of which prayer to say.

Anonymous said...

What's playing politics with a Islamic cleric making the invocation?

The constitution does not prefer Christianity over Islam.

An invocation by a person from ANY FAITH would comply with the ordinance. If an Islamic cleric wants to speak, we cannot discriminate. Nor should we want to.

Anonymous said...

why is there any invocation to open a government meeting? Unless we include all religions, we should not do any.it would be just as fair to have a satanist as it would a baptist.

Anonymous said...

this city needs all the prayers and praying it can get. those who do not like it can skip the prayer session. amen

Anonymous said...

Is your christian prayers more deserving that other religions? If you do not like constitutionality in government, you are free to move to a theocracy.

Anonymous said...

I am anxiously awaiting news' reports about the Council meeting last night and their interpretations.

The City diverted money they need by raising speeding tickets $50.00 and the $50 per ticket is the money being diverted, is that correct? Can you all follow this convoluted logic?

The Council had resumes for an Attorney who will represent Sewer Board, Stormwater Board, Council, and Board of Works? The job hasn't been posted but at the same time there is no contract for Council to review and no professional services contract bid drawn up, so how is this working (legally I mean)? We already have Lee Buchanan on the Sewer Board and they need another attorney?

The Police and Fire got more money than they asked for as a raise? The only thing I can say to that is it Election Time?

The Attorney item was on the Agenda on 3 different pages? What, were they expecting 3 different readings in one night? The issue was tabled when it first came up and the Council tabled it 2 more times? Sounds like someone didn't have their ducks lined up in a row.

We have come to the point in little New Albany we have an "invocation" now? Does the public have the right when they stand up to speak to ask Council if they may pray? I rather liked my friend's idea of giving each of the Council 2 pennies and saying that was for his 2 cents worth but before he spoke he wanted them to read what the pennies said.

Water rate hikes, extreme job losses, home losses, sewer hikes, England wants LOIT enacted (new income tax), $50 raise in speed limit tickets, civil fines from the Federal government for incidence in '07, overspending of the budget last year, no bank reconciliations, claims without supporting documentation, etc. I could go on and on.

I am going to be thankful it is election time because I see a joining together of regular joes, Democrat, Republican and Independent, and scuttle butte on the streets is rampant.

Thank you, Donnie, for leading prayer last night. People are joining together in doing the right thing according to their conscience and their interpretation of the constitution. Constitutional Law is a big subject, open to interpretation until it is spelled out in Court. The rub is Council have more important issues on their plate and I am glad Gonder took changing the agenda upon his self rather than making Council vote on the issue.

The light I saw turned on last night would be City Officials speaking before the Public (as stated by law) so taxpayers have a clue as to what the City is up to and can address same.

What's good for the goose I guess is good for the gander.

Now I will simply watch the attacks, personal and vicious, to start.

The Consitution does still allow for personal opinions, doesn't it?

Thanks, Shirley, for the space.

The New Albanian said...

Since the law has stated all along that an invocation (that precise word) will be read, and by an attending minister if present, then the Lord's Prayer never has been spelled out, all along. It was ad hoc.

In short, it seems that you want to follow the law when it suits you, and not when it doesn't, and reference the Constitution throughout either way.

Am I reading you correctly?

The New Albanian said...

What I'd give for a whirling dervish right about now. That'd be some invocation.

Better yet: A snake handler and speaking in tongues.

(straight line ... anyone?)

Anonymous said...

Our Father, who art in heaven,
hallowed be thy name.
Thy Kingdom come,
thy will be done,
on earth as it is in heaven
Give us this day our daily bread.
And forgive us our trespasses,
as we forgive those who trespass against us.
And lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from evil.
For thine is the kingdom,

the power and the glory,

for ever and ever.

Amen

Iamhoosier said...

No attack from me, just a clarifying note or two.

The extra money to to fire and police was awarded by an arbitrator--not the city. The firefighters took to their contract to arbitration and the city has no choice but to follow what the arbitrator ruled.

The "new" agenda order and such, is how it is spelled in city ordinances. The correct format has not been followed for several years.

I'm not sure what you are referring to about diverting $50 speeding tickets. The city is trying to set it up so that most of a speeding ticket fine comes to the city, instead of going to the state which is where it goes now.

OK, one little dig(but not vicious), don't like $50 speeding tickets--don't speed.

Anonymous said...

I don't speed and the City raised speeding tickets to $50.00 last night.

Interesting about the Arbitration. I wonder what the Arbitration was based on? The threat of an Audit? Seriously, I am trying to figure out how "they" got more than they asked for. I don't mind saying I am interested in the subject. I know the agenda has been out of order for years. Maybe we are not taking the time to read the words posted by another poster. Thanks for sharing the arbitration issue.

Anonymous said...

May all beings everywhere plagued
with sufferings of body and mind
quickly be freed from their illnesses.

May those frightened cease to be afraid,
and may those bound be free.

May the powerless find power,
and may people think of befriending
one another.

May those who find themselves in trackless,fearful wilderness–
the children, the aged,
the unprotected–
be guarded by beneficial celestials,

and may they swiftly attain Buddhahood

Anonymous said...

KIDS IN CHURCH

3-year-old Reese :
'Our Father, Who does art in heaven,
Harold is His name.
Amen.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A little boy was overheard praying: 'Lord, if you can't make me a better boy, don't worry about it. I'm having a real good time like I am.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

After the christening of his baby brother in church, Jason sobbed all the way home in the back seat of the car. His father asked him three times what was wrong. Finally, the boy replied, That preacher said he wanted us brought up in a Christian home, and I wanted to stay with you guys.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
One particular four-year-old prayed, And forgive us our trash baskets as we forgive those who put trash in our baskets.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

A Sunday school teacher asked her children as they were on the way to church service,And why is it necessary to be quiet in church?
One bright little girl replied,
Because people are sleeping.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A mother was preparing pancakes for her sons, Kevin 5, and Ryan 3
The boys began to argue over who would get the first pancake.
Their mother saw the opportunity for a moral lesson. If Jesus were sitting here, He would say, Let my brother have the first pancake, I can wait. Kevin turned to his younger brother and said, Ryan, you be Jesus!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A father was at the beach with his children when the four-year-old son ran up to him, grabbed his hand, and led him to the shore
where a seagull lay dead in the sand.. Daddy, what happened to him?the son asked. He died and went to Heaven,the Dad replied. The boy thought a moment and then said,
Did God throw him back down?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A wife invited some people to dinner. At the table, she turned to their six-year-old daughter and said, Would you like to say the blessing? I wouldn't know what to say, the girl replied. Just say what you hear Mom my say, the wife answered. The daughter bowed her head and said, Lord, why on earth did I invite all these people to dinner?

shirley baird said...

I really do not understand why so many people are upset because the Lord's Prayer was being said before the council meetings.

If anyone does not want to participate, they are not forced to do so.

If there is a minister there and wants to pray, that's fine too.

Please, give it a rest.

The New Albanian said...

Shirley, why mandate a prayer and then say, gee, if you don't want to listen, just leave the room?

Why not say the prayer silently? How can anyone object then?

BUT -- those aren't the issues. The rulebook is the rulebook, and even King Larry, not devotee of procedure, knew to ask if ministers were present to offer an invocation, as the rules state.

No one will answer the question. Rules as stated, or open to change on personal whim? Which is it?

The New Albanian said...

And yes, I'll give it a rest.

Anonymous said...

The New Albian Said.."I'll give it a rest."

thank god, AMEN

RememberCharlemagne said...

When I first attended meetings in high school I was surprised to find out that the Lord’s Prayer was given. I guess this is because I went to public school and leading prayer in school is taboo.

After, a few years of reading, I quickly learned that from the beginning Christianity was essential and embraced as a part of American Politics. If I'm not mistaken both houses of congress and the Supreme Court all begin in prayer. Our states' assemblies begin in prayer and our local assemblies begin in prayer. These traditions started from the beginning and even before the constitution gave us the right.


Can anyone answer me this?
If the fire department sends three trucks to a fire and will only have one backup. Why don't they just send two and then have two as back up?

If anything there shouldn't be a reason to have two fire stations so close to one another. I would think that consolidating houses could save money and still provide adequate service.

Christopher D said...

perhaps the number of engines dispatched to a fire has to do with the number of fire fighters assigned to an engine? Not the number of engines (or aparatus, trucks, whichever)

Consolodating stations may well save money, after all how much damage could really be done to persons and property if the response time is a few minutes longer?

Anonymous said...

consolidate, eliminate, and help our budget.

Anonymous said...

save the budget~let the people burn

Anonymous said...

have the firemen taken down the christmas light yet?

Anonymous said...

Annon 3:55 PM

Christopher D should be able to answer. He knows everything.

Christopher D said...

Oh God, I am mortally wounded by the horrid attack...

Anonymous said...

Christopher D. says "Oh God . . "

i take it you are in favor of prayer before council meetings.

The New Albanian said...

Jameson wrote: "I quickly learned that from the beginning Christianity was essential and embraced as a part of American Politics."

As though it was a 2 +2 = 4 equation.

It depends which books you read. If all the books I read say that the sky is pink, I might begin believing it even when it appears blue to me. That's the power of propaganda.

In short: You learned what you wanted to learn. If it were as simple as you make it out to be, then well-intentioned people in good conscience would not have spent the past 230 years discussing the issue.

Anonymous said...

The New Albanian Said.."I'll give it a rest."

thank god, AMEN

too good to be true.

Anonymous said...

Christopher D.

have the firemen taken down the christmas lights yet?

Iamhoosier said...

From the beginning there was slavery, women could not vote, only property owners could vote, etc.

Anonymous said...

what books did you read that tells different new albanian?

RememberCharlemagne said...

Chris, I'm not talking about losing fire fighters I'm talking about closing a building to save some cost without losing service.

I would be hard pressed to think if they closed the Market House down the Spring St couldn't cover without any difference in time. It looks to me that they have overlapping service.

By closing a building down it may free up enough money to provide better service.

Councilmen Messer mentioned once of how pay structure affected the budget at the police department. He said that officers are promoted to Captain but are not in charge of anyone, when they should be in charge of other officers to get the promotion.

I would think the same would be for firefighters at fire stations. You would have to have a Chief, or the like, at each one, but if you consolidated, you could eliminate the pay scale of a chief but keep the firefighter.
It still doesn’t answer my question as to the Fire Chief reasoning behind not closing the Market Fire House because three engines have to respond to a fire and that only leaves one in reserve, so send two, not three, and you have two backups.

RememberCharlemagne said...

Roger, how do you know what I have read?

You are late in the game to explain to me what is empirical and what is propaganda. I have long understood the difference, and if I had to go off what I have ever offered as examples, to topics, and what I read off of your blog and articles, I think you better fit your "in short" description.

Personally I prefer reading dissenting points of view then points of view I assume to be correct and I love original sources like the Plato’s Apology, Crito, Pheado, Symposium, and Republic to better understand who Socrates truly was. But I am guilty of not being able to read Greek at this time so only English translations.

Anonymous said...

So easily you all forget it was in England's plan adter his election to close the Market Street fire house. I just want to know why England continues to kiss the police departments a**?

Christopher D said...

I find it interesting that there are still those who think New Albany is an oddity because public safety is the biggest budgetary expenditure.

RemChar:
I dont think I said anything about layoff fire fighters. Also, a lot the ranking fire / police officers got to that position through merit programs, not just the need for supervisory positions.

Anon fan club:
Nice to know you remember what I had posted in early december when someone said Wicks was on fire, for someone so hateful you sure keep tabs rather well. In fact you downright make me happy!

RememberCharlemagne said...

Did I hear right, did Gonder say that Dan Chanlor is the next council attorney or am I wrong?

RememberCharlemagne said...

Sorry, Chandler

Anonymous said...

England's already picked his guy for full time Council Attorney.

Anonymous said...

How can an Atheist write so much about God and religion?

RememberCharlemagne said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
RememberCharlemagne said...

Chandler is not the attorney I heard wrong. His name was mentioned for Economic (RE)?Development Commission.

I think he would serve New Albany well in this position being a lawyer.

Anonymous said...

the oddity is that the amount of money that is spent compared to other similiar size cities, that they continue to want and take more, and the service provided is next to none.

Anonymous said...

10:42, why don't you show us specific examples and specific numbers.

Anonymous said...

read shirley's post, they were just awarded an increase in pay...example of taking more when the city is unable to afford it. not willing to sacrifice like most are having to do during these economic times. having to use edit to fund them because they busted the budget in prior year.

Anonymous said...

you have not shown us specific examples and specific numbers of NA versus other cities.

Anonymous said...

in all truthfulness it doesn't matter does it? it's a problems that no one is willing to seriously address except to keep spending more money on it. it is what it is.

Anonymous said...

I'm with Zurschmiede before long the only thing we will be able to afford is police and fire. Forget anyother service we need, like street department and etc.

Anonymous said...

i think the city would look pretty good if we just let it go back to nature.

screw mowing grass. gravel roads are good enough for me! i kind of like wild dogs running around too!

Anonymous said...

Can anyone answer me why the City treats taxpayers as ignorant?

Don't they realize some of us became very much aware of what is going on down at City Hall?

Did the ordinance pass about private parking spaces for residents?

RemCharlagme: Get a map of the City of New Albany and draw 10 quarter sized circles around each of the TIFS. You may then realize the amount of dollars we lose in revenue for our General Fund and why the taxes are not coming in for certain residents having to pay for fire, police, library, etc.

I'm still waiting on some other person to tell me just which city has 50 tifs. I know ignorance is bliss but not in any of these particular matters facing our fair city. Thanks.

RememberCharlemagne said...

Yes, I would like to find out more about N.A. Tifs. More I understand the less they make sense.

The only perk I see is their bonding power.

Anonymous said...

Politics 101

Every elected official should have to spend time in both the majority and the minority so they can know how life feels in the other side of the fence.

It's not your money.

Be mindful of the toes you step on today because they will be connected to the rear end you might have to kiss tomorrow.

If more people would follow these rules, we'd get a lot more done in New Albany.

Anonymous said...

i wish some of the taxpayers weren't liars, trying to act like they have dozens of people posting here when really it's only two people.

Anonymous said...

Lord, creator and sustainer of all that we have thank you for being you and giving us your grace. Please guide our political leaders in the direction you would have them go. Remove temptation from their path and give them the will to stand up for what is important to you. I humbly ask this in Jesus name, Amen.

Anonymous said...

Amen!

Anonymous said...

RemChar, the bonds we pay back have to have the funds of possible EDIT backing same, i.e., the parking garage and where some like to split the hairs on a word (I think shall) pay the city back but arguments over a technicality doesn't equal the promises made to taxpayers and the way Council understood it when they voted.

Our Bond rating isn't that hot. With the recession and all I'd hate to see the rates on that beast.

Nice talking with you. You can always use the map in the telephone book to draw circles around, but in the basement of the City County Bldg you can get free maps of the County in whole and it depicts it so much better when you draw the ten quarter size circles on same.

Anonymous said...

Another thought. You can request an actual TIF map from Carl M. with the Redevelopment Depart. They are in charge of TIFs.

I could be wrong but I think New Albany is bonded out, our bond ratings are low, and bonds need to be paid back with revenue. Sort of a catch 22. Edit is usually pledged also.

Anonymous said...

..or we could increase revenue.

Anonymous said...

RIGHT ON!

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Iamhoosier said...

Even if you could "abandon" all the existing TIFs, it would not greatly increase the revenue available to the city. It actually could cause much less money to be available to fix infrastructure.

On the most basic level, if you could wave a magic wand and
DOUBLE the assessed property value in NA overnight, do you know how much our budget would go up next year?

About 4%.

Again, I'm not arguing that we have too many TIFs or too few. I'm just pointing out that that they are not costing the city that much revenue--if any.

Anonymous said...

4% may sound like a small number
but it doesn't tell anyone the actual dollar amount. Could you tell us how much that 4% has actually cost us so far in dollars ($) and how much it equates to over the life of all the current TIFs? To say 4% and not provide actual dollar figures does not give the whole picture. I know there are still some other variables but lets go under the assumption that the developments would have occurred (we can hypothetically guess later which ones would not have).

4% is a maximum annual increase so the magic wand theory you provide is misleading. Total assessed values would not have to double in order to get the annual maximum 4% increase.

Anonymous said...

GOVERNMENT FINANCE TERMS
_____________________________________
ASSESSED VALUATION
The total assessed value of property and buildings in a specific area.
City or County.
___________________________________

LEVY
The tax dollars given the city to support their annual budget.
___________________________________
MAXIMUM LEVY
Since 1973 Indiana Law prescribes that the annual tax levy to support the budget can increase only a certain percent over the levy of the previous year.
___________________________________
TAX RATE
The amount paid by the taxpayer,
based on the approved levy and the
assessed valuation.
___________________________________
THEREFORE, IF THE ASSESSED VALUATION GOES UP, THE TAX RATE PAID BY THE TAXPAYERS CAN BE LOWER.
___________________________________

Anonymous said...

And, I have to disagree IAMHOOSIER. If we could capture any new AV (assessed values) from NEW construction within the TIF areas (if they weren't TIF'd) our revenue would increase there fore lowering OUR tax rates. Guess we should be to disagree.

Anonymous said...

To 1/23 7:10 PM, why are you worried about who posts here? ROF. Why don't you start your own blog and not read Shirley's or others rather than lending nothing to conversations - other than letting it be clear you are with the Admin and do not LIKE what you are reading. Stick with the subject matter and lend something to same or else point that mouse somewhere else, and that's how I feel.

Anonymous said...

would be great to put a Cracker Barrel right in the middle of downtown. At least we could afford to eat there unlike other places downtown.

To many bars and expensive resturants here in New Albany.

Looks like UEZ is running into problems, we gotta cut somewhere.

Anonymous said...

ANON January 24, 2010 1:25 PM

Now that you know your government finance terms how about providing us with figures in dollars.

Also you state: THEREFORE, IF THE ASSESSED VALUATION GOES UP, THE TAX RATE PAID BY THE TAXPAYERS CAN BE LOWER.

It can also be higher!

Anonymous said...

I'm with you. If they're cutting $6.6 million from schools,and will be closing several elementary schools in New Albany, then they need to cut back on UEZ and everything else.

My understand from the County Council buting Coyle 's property is not their priority, infact they tell me they want NO dealings with England on this issue.

Loop was dumb in my book to have bought all those houses in the West End, anyone doing business with England has learned long ago, it's never a sure thing when you deal with Doug.

Anonymous said...

I'm with you. If they're cutting $6.6 million from schools,and will be closing several elementary schools in New Albany, then they need to cut back on UEZ and everything else.

My understand from the County Council buting Coyle 's property is not their priority, infact they tell me they want NO dealings with England on this issue.

Loop was dumb in my book to have bought all those houses in the West End, anyone doing business with England has learned long ago, it's never a sure thing when you deal with Doug.

Anonymous said...

I'm with you. If they're cutting $6.6 million from schools,and will be closing several elementary schools in New Albany, then they need to cut back on UEZ and everything else.

My understand from the County Council buting Coyle 's property is not their priority, infact they tell me they want NO dealings with England on this issue.

Loop was dumb in my book to have bought all those houses in the West End, anyone doing business with England has learned long ago, it's never a sure thing when you deal with Doug.

Anonymous said...

I agree that the entrances in New Albany need to be cleaned up. First impressions are very important when coming into the city and then we remind again leaving how ugly it is.

Iamhoosier said...

I never claimed that property values had to double to get a 4% increase. It was just an example. Some people here seem to think that if all the TIFs were gone that we sould be awash with money. That's not true. We may even have less--because the TIF allows increased revenue to be kept in New Albany.

Yes, it's possible that taxes could be lower and if that's your ONLY goal for NA, I will agree with your take--as short sighted as it is.

Anonymous said...

If they're cutting $6.6 million from schools,and will be closing several elementary schools in New Albany, then they need to cut back on UEZ ....


You truly do enjoy talking about things you don't understand.

Neither the county nor the city put a penny into the UEA. Not from general funds, from TIF funds, or any other funds under the control of the city or county.




Loop was dumb in my book to have bought all those houses in the West End...

Lopp didn't buy one house in the West End. If you talk to the people who agreed to someday sell, then you might understand the arrangement.

Anonymous said...

I'd be proud to be "dumb" in the book of an ignorant person.

Anonymous said...

one anonymous says clean up the entrances to town, another anonymous says all we need are a little police and fire.

well which is it?

Anonymous said...

Why do citizens put up with KZ leasing to an Asian spa at Pearl and Main?

That's not the kind of downtown development I want.

Anonymous said...

Iamhoosier

You keep claiming that the tifs are not taking much revenue and that if they were gone we might even lose some revenue, but you still have failed to provide dollar figures to back your claim up. It is easy to simply talk and make a claim that it is not much revenue. Can you validate your claim by backing it up with dollar amounts? If you can't then how can you make such a claim when you don't know how much it is actually taking from the general fund?

I'm not being short sighted in looking at from the stand point of lowering taxes. I'm looking at it from a point of being able to provide adequate funding for our general fund so that we are not having to worry about closing fire stations, laying off public safety officials, and so that the city could provide decent level of services that the citizens of this community deserve.

RememberCharlemagne said...

The 4% would be compounded

4% out of 12,000,000 would be a little less than 600,000 a year. New Albany would have to have an increase of assessed value greater than 600,000 in one year to lose that year and then the next year any remaining assessed value could be captured. Plus it would be more like 8% because of compounding.

The only benefits I see is the bonding capacity. The argument could be made is it helps to keep money away from the large budgets of the schools, police, and fire, which could be bad a bad thing too.


Mark, do you have any figures?

Anonymous said...

The schools are taken care of by the State now. FYI

Anonymous said...

I just read the latest "Professor Erik" slop. It makes absolutely no sense. Who is she saying is the flim-flam man? Caesar? Stay and topic, lady. What does Caesar's health insurance vote have to do with Shane Gibson? You're one confused lady.

Iamhoosier said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Christopher D said...

PLEASE DO NOT POLITICIZE THIS!

The Family Health Centers will be sending medical supplies to Haiti for continuing treatment of victims of the Earthquake.

If anyone is interested in donating supplies (band-aids, gauze pads, alcohol wipes, etc) please feel free to contact me through my email address!

And thank you for not turning this posting into another attack, there will be plenty of time for that later. :)

Iamhoosier said...

All I have been trying to do is help explain TIFs. I stated that from the beginning. Some people act like TIFs are "bad" in general. All I've tried to do is point out that the idea behind TIF was, and is, valid. How they have been used in New Albany is another topic.

No, I don't have figures and I have tried to stay away from actual figures because IT'S ONLY EXAMPLES. If "you"(6:48) have actual figures to show the misuse of TIF in New Albany, please by all means, start that topic.

Jameson, you are correct on the compounding, of course. However, for the full 4% to be gained by increased valuations only from TIF areas, you would have to assume that there was no growth in valuations outside of TIF areas. It is quite possible that there has been enough growth outside TIF areas to get a major part of the 4%. Also, the TIF money isn't gone. It's still here for NA to spend, albeit with more restrictions than general fund dollars(that's why you don't TIF the entire city).

RememberCharlemagne said...

I would be curious how often New Albany reaches its max levy.

If I had to guess it wouldn't be often. I haven't seen a great deal of investment in city limits over recent years.

One reason I think it is worth understanding is because the demand to use EDIT to shore up the General Fund limits N.A. from using EDIT in a more meaningful way.

RememberCharlemagne said...

If N.A. isn't reaching its max levy then the only reason for a TIF in N.A. would be to bond out but any additional tax value would be limited to only the TIF area.

Iamhoosier said...

I don't know how often we reached maximum either. With the exception of the last two or three years, you could have had two 2 x 4's nailed together on an empty lot and the valaution went up.(grin)

Anonymous said...

See Jan. 24, 2010 at 1:25PM comment.

LEVY is the amount of dollars that the state allows the City to receive to spend in the General Fund.

The state allows the LEVY to increase each year by a certain percent set by the state.

The growth percent used to be 5%, but now is around 4%. Is set by
DLGF.

New Albany gets the MAXIMUM DOLLARS EACH YEAR ALLOWED BY THE STATE.

One of the above comments remarked that the City does not reach its maximum levy.

That statement is not correct. NA
receives the maximum allowed levy and they over spend the NA approved Budget.

That is why they cry that they do not have enough dollars because they do not stay within those budget limits.

Anonymous said...

When the City tries to raise the levy (published at year end sometime near February), they have tried to raise the levy but do not have the supporting documentation nor the books in order supporting such a claim. Citizens come out and remonstrate because they know the books are messed up.

City's fault not taxpayers.

Iamhoosier said...

If 3:49 is correct, then the existing TIF districts are not hurting the general fund.

Anonymous said...

ATT: IAMHOOSIER

CORRECT: TIFS DO NOT HURT THE GENERAL FUND. HOWEVER, THE NEW ASSESSED VALUATION OF THE TIF AREA COULD LOWER THE TAX RATE PAID BY THE TAXPAYERS.

THE HIGHER TOTAL ASSESSED VALUATION, HELPS LOWER RATE PAID BY TAXPAYERS.

Iamhoosier said...

I understand. Thanks.

Anonymous said...

It's not about being mayor for the ego.

He will seek another term on 2011

IF,

and seemingly only

IF,

it is by popular demand.

If you run, you will lose.

Anonymous said...

Great article over at Freedom Of Speech. But did they bust the Mayors a**. Let your voices be heard.

Anonymous said...

VOP article was impossible to understand.

what was your point again, vickie?

Anonymous said...

Wonderful article: a true example of why to use spell check. One would think a college professor would be able to write better than that.

Anonymous said...

Too bad the premise for the post was lifted from some other blogs

Anonymous said...

tax rates, transparency and efficiency are legitimate concerns.

too bad the most outspoken advocate for those issues:

-lies about her qualifications
-lies about her organization
-makes personal attacks, and
-is terribly inarticulate.

if you want people to take seriously good government issues, you have to be serious, which 'erik' is not.

Christopher D said...

I have about as much understanding of TIF's as I do quantum physics, even with the explainations offered here, I am at best fuzzy about them.

But in regards to establishing a TIF district for the coyle building, how would that benefit us in the long run?

Would we as a city have a better return on the investment as a government center, or as a private development?

Anonymous said...

so many obsessed erik folks here. simply amazing how much time they devote to their obsession by writing about erik all the time.

RememberCharlemagne said...

"One of the above comments remarked that the City does not reach its maximum levy."

That statement is not correct. NA receives the maximum allowed levy and they over spend the NA approved Budget

I don't think that is quite what Mark and I are talking about. Yes they receive the maximum amount every year from the LDGF that N.A. should get but we are talking about increased assessed value from one year to the next that exceeds the 4% levy and therefore New Albany receives nothing but lower taxable rate.

I would think logically the city would have to be able to increase its general fund somehow.

If the levy prevents this then I would support legislation to get rid of it.

With regard to how I understand it now.

RememberCharlemagne said...

Now Quantum Physics is something I know a lot about.

There was this guy named Sam Becket and he had a friend named Al. They would travel time to right wrongs trying to leap home one day.

Christopher D said...

Doing better than me RemChar, best I can do is "the Drake equation":

N = N* fp ne fl fi fc fL

RememberCharlemagne said...

Daniel, what did Steve think of our public housing in New Albany?

Will he be putting his thoughts in the paper?

Anonymous said...

Too funny. Vicki's in Italy.

Anonymous said...

and god knows elizabeth or virginia would never post anything for her.

Anonymous said...

if she's in italy that's the funniest thing i've ever heard.

she complains that roger is too "european" and then jets off for europe.

then she calls other people hypocrites.

funny. funny. funny.

Anonymous said...

i hear they have computers in italy.

Iamhoosier said...

Not logical but that's the way it is. That's why the TIF districts CAN be important. It allows a city to keep the increased revenue(with more restriction on how to spend it)from the designated TIF district(s)without counting against the 4% cap.

That is why I used my example above about doubling the assessed value. The general fund can go up by a maximum of 4%.

I'm afraid it is what we were talking about, Jameson. Unfortunately.

Mark

Iamhoosier said...

More "sound" logic.

The state allows the use of LOIT. Local Option Income Tax(I believe)to help offset declining property tax revenue. However, New Albany can't pass it. Only the county can.

To those of you against LOIT or any other tax, I'm not arguing for or against(at this time). Just trying to get agreement on what the playing field actually is and what the rules are. We seem to be making some progress on that, at least.

RememberCharlemagne said...

Yes, Mark but without knowing if New Albany reaches its max levy each year then TIF could be bad or good for New Albany.

Yes, N.A. will get the max levy only if it is under 4% but if N.A. is receiving tax revenue that exceeds the 4% they are not receiving the extra money but instead receives a lower taxable rate.

Iamhoosier said...

I don't think that we are disagreeing but with my writing skills(lack thereof)who knows.

RememberCharlemagne said...

The goal for a city should be to increased assessed value without increasing an alternate additional tax like LOIT.

People argue income taxes are fairer but I don't think they are. I see property tax as a fair tax when all people’s property is assessed the same way.

A renter shouldn't have to pay property tax but the landlord should. The Indiana general assembly has capped this and in its place offers LOIT so it is a way to make renters pay for reduced property tax and therefore they are paying property tax. I like the idea of the cap but not the levy.

If cities could collect all new assessed value for their general funds they may be willing to invest more into neighborhoods. The cap can stay but the levy should go.

People already pay Federal, State, Local income tax. We keep shifting the burden to people who have money like a landlord to people who don't like most renters in N.A. doing this will increase the difficulty for people to work their way out of poverty.

I am not totally sold on the idea of landlords being taxed at a higher rate on rental property that are individual homes. A house is a house and should be taxed the same. Anytime you tax the landlord it goes back on the renter. All individual homes should be taxed at 1% and any home that is not a primary residents and a duplex or greater should be tax at a higher rate.

RememberCharlemagne said...

Yes, we are agreeing but I want to reach a resolution for action.

Iamhoosier said...

Good luck. (grin)

Anonymous said...

J you are so full of sh*t. You probably believe you do know a lot about quantum physics. You can't even master tifs. You are incredible and very much unlike your hero Socrates.