There have been two recent articles in the "Courier-Journal" about eliminating Township Trustees and the Advisory Board. This is another one of Daniel's ideas for "reform".
I have never worked with the Township Trustee's office but I have volunteered at Interfaith and have seen many people apply for help with their utility bills. These people visit the Interfaith office on a daily basis. Interfaith is limited to the amount they have to help these people and often refer them to the Township Trustee's office.
If we did not have a Township Trustee or Advisory Board (who determines the budget) where would these people go for help? The CJ article said they would be referred to "county government" whoever that is. It looks like the poor would be given the run around again, just like when they call the "Welfare" office for help with ADC payments or food stamps.
You can bet that these legislators, especially Rep. Bill Crawford, the author of this bill, has never had to apply for benefits or assist someone who has. I must agree with Rep. Craig Fry who said , "I think this is a horrible public policy." And tell Rep. Crawford that his idea, "This lets the people decide" and "This is about governing with the consent of those governed." is flawed because if the bill is worded as poorly as the one regarding the Township Assessors many will not understand it and will not vote the way they intended.
Let's not let Daniels win on this one. Please vote to keep our Township Advisory Board and Trustees. Don't let our disadvantaged citizens get the shaft again.
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194 comments:
New Albany township pays twice as much money to trustee, staff and board than it gives out for poor relief.
It is a very inefficient method.
New Albany township pays twice as much money to trustee, staff and board than it gives out for poor relief.
It is a very inefficient method.
Shirley,
I'm surprised at you for making such a statement without knowing much about it. Is this how you will represent New Albany if elected?
So we should keep an antiquated, inefficient, layer of government because they doll out a small amount of money to help the poor? We could easily transfer the exact same function to county government.
Township government is pointless. Eliminate it.
Applegate, Walker, and Hornung make more than $500 for each meeting they attend.
Services will not be eliminated just moved to the County Government.
Township trustees offices contribute greatly to the care of the underpriviliged in our area.
We have close working partnerships with most of the trustees offices, and they DO provide one time assistance to medically indigent residents of our area to obtain prescriptions until such a time that they can become an established patient of our community health centers.
And as such, I strongly feel that even though it is public funds, in the long run it save us all money.
By providing that one months worth of medications they can help keep medically indigent persons out of the emergency rooms, whose costs in treating the patients will not be recovered and only passed on to the rest of us in increased fees for services to recover those monies.
This is just one aspect of the functions that the trustees perform. I know I work with at least one of the township trustees offices all the time, and it goes beyond medications.
Just another fine example of Mitch Daniels seeing the bottom line as more important than the people he works for.
Wake up: Those services will still be provided!
Re Wake up:
They are being provided NOW, and the people who need them the most know where to go.
There is a dedicated office, and staff who know what they are doing, who is eligible for help, when and under what circumstances.
If its not broke, dont fix it.
Of course, overhauling medicaid under the same ideology made that soooooo much better, and those services are still being provided.
Only now it is impossible to get an answer in a timely manner, reimbursement for providers seems slower, eligible citizens have to wait longer to obtain it...
It is pointless tinker-toy politics to create the illusion of effecting positive change, where there is no need for change.
this could be just like property taxes that daniel fixed and now look at the budget cuts in public schools
Touchy subject. 3 forms of government, i.e., County, City and Townships. Touchy to say the least.
Saw where he thinks if Cities do not have enough monies they should be thinking about merging, also.
Tough subject all the way around.
Chris,
Yes Township government does contribute to helping our poor, but at what price?
They have a administrative budget of about $200,000. At that price I don't think we are getting much bang for our buck.
Plus if you go in there the first thing you do is send you to Interfaith, Salvation Army or other charities to keep from having to pay out.
The first thing Freiburger did when she took office was cut the office hours that they were willing to take applications about the same time that they should have been staying open longer.
perhaps that is the case with New Albany Township Trustees, I can not say with certainty as far as direct help to the needy.
I know it is not that way with Jeffersonville Township Trustees office.
I honestly am too detatched from the day to day operations at Floyd to make a certain assesment regarding that particular office.
Over all though, as a average of services provided through out all of the trustees offices we have agreements and MOU's with, the services offered are extremely beneficial to those whom are served.
Is this possibly a situation where the management of the office itself needs to be looked at on a local level?
"They are being provided NOW, and the people who need them the most know where to go"
I really had to laugh at this comment. The services would still be provided and they would continue to go to the city county building and probably even to the same office location.
Just because they are poor doesn't make them dumb.
"I really had to laugh at this comment. The services would still be provided and they would continue to go to the city county building and probably even to the same office location.
Just because they are poor doesn't make them dumb."
Please do not attempt to interpret my words in such an insulting manner to either myself or the people this Mitch brainstorm would most directly impact, thank you very much.
Chris,
Don't you think that this would be better handled by those with professional training instead of a political office? Most states that had similar systems, did away with them years ago, long before this latest financial crunch.
If Chris really cared so much about the poor he would want a system in which the most dollars could be used for them.
oh yeah, anon, I am the trampler of the poors soul. I victimize them at every chance I get, I rob them blind, sell their children into slavery.
Mark,
I am simply posting what my professional experience has been with the trustees office and the assistance they have provided to the medically indigent prior to becoming established at one of our community health centers.
Is there a better way to do it, probably, there always is. However I base my reluctancy to accept Mitch's pitch based on the experiences the health centers have had with his other brilliant ideas, and I have had with his cost saving ideas with the DNR
2:14,
Yeah, Chris chose his career with dollar signs in eyes. (sarcasm)
Jeeez.
ANON 12:47
If I am elected to the city council, I will listen to the citizens and do everything I can to help them with their concerns.
I never claimed to be an expert on Townships or anything else. Very few people are but many claim to be.
Correct you are mark. I currently have a client cleaning the road salt off of my mercedes in exchange for their insulin!
I don't know why Chris chose his career, but If I had his position I would want to see to it that every dollar possible could be used to help those in need. Since he doesn't I guess that explains why he is wanting an old antiquated, inefficient, system to remain in place.
Chris,
Based on some of Mitch's doings, I understand. My wife has fought some of those same battles that you have. However, this is not a new idea. It has been around for awhile. It was not fostered by Mitch and/or the current fiscal problems.
I'm glad that your dealings have been good. Others have not been so fortunate. Other states did away with similar systems due to the ineffiency and abuses. It is a relatively small office, out of the general public's eye and therefore lacks oversight. It's long been a den of patronage. Sexual favors for assistance, etc. Speaking in general and not about any particular local office or official.
"I don't know why Chris chose his career, but If I had his position I would want to see to it that every dollar possible could be used to help those in need. Since he doesn't I guess that explains why he is wanting an old antiquated, inefficient, system to remain in place."
You would be amazed at how we can ring every last drop of help out of every last underfunded dollar.
Of course, if you read the posts you would see that I said there has to be a better way, that there always is. But of course that would limit your ability to villianize someone in the conversation.
Medication and medical help, simple solution, take that funding and place it in the capable hands of community health centers.
No community health center? Place the funding in the hands of a public/private partnership with a pharmacy in each county.
Burial assistance for the deceased indigent, cut out the middle man and put it in the hands of a funeral home in each county.
Utilities assistance? Community action agencies.
Rent assistance? Local housing authority.
It can be done, but again with the experiences I have dealt with, anytime Mitch gets involved the political tinker-toy set comes out and what was an 800 pound gorilla becomes a 5000 pound half retarded elephant.
Your experiences do not make it the right way to be done. There are a lot of other people with experiences and governments with experiences that together far exceeds yours. Please don't take that as an insult, unless you feel your experiences are greater.
my experiences in this instance are based on the end results of other "positive" changes that have been made by the current state administration to "better serve" the impoverished and medically indigent.
Not many professional politicians are willing to spend the time to get a good understanding of the subtle nuances involved with dealing directly with the particular demographic in this case, which is not intended to be an insult to those in that demographic.
So on that, I humbly withdraw from this debate with adding this, AGAIN stating that I understand there are better ways to deal with this particular situation, I just dont trust the judgement of the disconnected "never been there or done that" administration we currently have in Indy. But of course thats why I will be there for the first part of February, again, to apparantly not gain any further insight in government as it relates to IPHCA
Neither Mitch or the State Administration is making the decision. The citizens of each county will be making the decision. The state is graciously allowing us the tax payers to decide.
You really are blaming the wrong person when you attack Daniels.
Why don't you all ask Henderson why he did not prosecute Cannon? Ask the township where all that money went. I know, do you?
Ask Freiberger an Atty. Stan Robinson about her Township audit when she came into office.
FYI it was the "ADVISORY BOARD" who questioned the entire funds missing, they are well worth every dollar they receive!!!!!!!
None of you all have a clue to what's really going on in this town and if you do, you are as quilty as they are.
Anon: 3:17 PM
Chris always attacks someone. It's his style. He always feels he is right and has to have someone to blame.
I'll bite. Where did all that money go and how do you "know"?
Applegate has voted herself a raise every year she has been in office she make about 20 times what she did when she was first elected.
For $500 a meeting we could get a CPA with a law degree to look at the books instead of a history teacher and a crossing guard
"Chris always attacks someone. It's his style. He always feels he is right and has to have someone to blame."
I "attack" people like you who just feel the need to stir up trouble.
I didnt attack anyone, I didnt "blame" anyone. I stated my opinion based on my experience, nothing more, nothing less.
Thanks for sharing more of your verbal bile.
Shirley, are you running as at-large?
Anonymous 3:25pm-"For $500 a meeting we could get a CPA with a law degree to look at the books"
Send that person to look at the books for the sewers!!!
Iamhoosier,
It's on line all you have to do is find it like I did. We are talking thousands of dollars spent on truck payments and his mortgage payments, and etc. Ask Stan Robinson he knows all about it.
Shirley's running at-large and what are you running for Roger?
Anyone read letter to the Editor today?
Most of us have not forgotten that Barack Obama walked into a buzz saw when he took office. To suggest otherwise, or to expect there is a cheap and painless quick fix is htpocritical at best.
Ruthanne Wolfe
Who is this looney tune? Sure she has no clue to what she is saying. Keep drinking the kool-aid Mrs. Wolfe, and you'll be out on the street with the rest of us.
Impreach Obama
Congratulations to FREEDOM OF SPEECH.
Your new site looks great !
It is truly a sign of FREEDOM in our
country when the HACKERS are not allowed to block out the TRUTH.
Keep up the good work. We appreciate
your efforts to tell us the facts of what is going on in our city.
You say townshop is pointless. What about Deputy Mayor, full time city attorney and other extra city employees?
I heard they want a full time council attorney.
Why?
Most cities New Albany's size have twice the staff we have. That helps with code enforcement, cleaning up slums, getting grant money to lower taxes while increasing services, etc.
Ditch Price.
WELCOME BACK, I JUST LOVE FREEDOM OF SPEECH.
WELCOME BACK, I JUST LOVE FREEDOM OF SPEECH.
6:07 Where did you get your facts or is that just your opinion? So you think 85 cents of every dollar should be spent on police and fire? How do we run the rest of the departments on 15 cents on the dollar?
I feel Councilman Price is doing a great job. Someone is standing up for us homeowners in the 3rd District.
If the Mayor truly has the taxpayers in mind, he would step down. He has lost the ability to effectively govern.
The 'professor' must really be hung over from days of teabagging.
When the hell is she going to fix that stupid FOS background?
Anon: January 16, 2010 10:59 PM
I know you are so lost without your favorite professor's blog! I'm sure the professor is appreciative of knowing how much you miss it. Hang in there, maybe it will be back for you and you'll be able to be happy again.
anonymous 8:52, I'm with you on this issue. But, personally I just read FOS and it's one hell of a great article.
Welcome back Erik.
THANK YOU, We are so glad to see FREEDOM OF SPEECH overcome the nasty work of those HACKERS and put the truth back on line.
We need someone to stand up and tell the truth of what is going on in our current NA Administration.
BLESS YOU !
FOS is back?still looks down to me.
An excellent article about TIFs on Freedom of Speech. Amen, Halleluhia, right on, etc. Need I say more? Thanks to all who are trying to educate people on TIF's.
Unbelievable OUR government can lie the way they do, but some didn't expect anything else with the local Yahoos.
As a Democrat, I see Messer and Doug running against each other on separate tickets as a "straw" election. Who are the Pub's going to put up, besides Messer? Dave, this is unacceptable.
You WISH that was FOS. Rolling on the floor, lol!
miss your background, erika?
it's still on the internet. look at the top of CFA's website. it's always been there.
http://citizens-for-accountability.blogspot.com/
Searching for pity points perhaps with all the "hacking" claims?
9:59, good points, LOL
Funny how there are people talking to theirselves on here, patting themselves on the back, BECAUSE the Heat is On, LOL.
How dare you, FOS, print the truth about TIFs and Carl's sanctified monies? How dare some one agree with it!
Ouch, the truth hurts, hmmmmmmm?
1:21 - you are very good at having opinions.
So R u. Don't u have today off?
After wading through the slop about TIF's at voice of New Albany it would seem there is little information about TIF's and used as an opportunity to make rude comments about people. Whats so great about that?
So you think 10 TIFs are slop? So do I. If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.
I think TIF's are useful tools for development. I think the name calling and slanderous comments about people on the supposedly wonderful website is slop.
Spoken as a true City employee.
I think TIFs are depleting the general fund as are tax abatements. There is a thing called over-use of tools and they tend to get rusty after a little while.
Don't you have any new tools besides the ones hurting taxpayers and the General Fund?
This topic is a hot potato. I can understand where it may get under your skin.
I'm not even sure you read the article as you are quoting the wrong blog space.
Thanks for the space Shirley.
is it not true that the blog cited on here referred to as FOS is voiceofnewalbany.blogspot.com? That is the blog I am citing. Further I am no city employee.
Touting FOS as proving wonderful information about TIF's is very misleading.If it were so informative it would have mentioned TIF's tendancy to increase gentrification of TIF districts, also while TIF's tend to increase growth within the TIF district it is at the cost of slower growth and often declination in the areas just outside the mandated TIF district. It seems to me TIF's around here are more of a tool to shake fingers of blame and political adversaries than it is a tool for your city's development, or the first conversation would be demanding the creation of an oversight committee for implementing new and maintaining current TIF districts.
is anything from FOS not slop?
GO ERIKA GO!!!! YOUR A MAN WITH A PLAN.
9:07,
So you must assume that any building given an abatement would have been built anyway?
By the way, tools usually get rusty when they are not used.
Okay, trying to give the benefit of the doubt to the voiceofnewalbany, and the comments commending the informative, in depth explaination of TIF districting. I would like to submit a question regarding if it is such a good explaination of TIF what does the salary of an appointed position have to do with TIF's? Also the statement that TIF's are coprorate welfare, and that investors should pay for infrastructure improvments should be paid for by companies could not be further off base if deliberate.
So the question to be asked from the property owners, who are you going to believe an uninformed person who cites textbook anti-TIF pseudo statstics lifted from various blog entries from other cities, or do the research yourself before making a decision?
1. No, that is not the blog.
2. We have an oversight committee, Carl Malysk and Redevelopment.
3. What kind of gentrification happened with the Parking Garage we are still paying for and EDIT monies were not returned to General Fund?
4. Where is the growth from the Parking Garage? As far as we know, only city-county employees use it except for Harvest...........
5. With 10 TIFs, why do we not simply TIF the rest of the City? There really isn't too much left except for the areas downtown and they need sewers fixed. This is why we need the EDIT funds for the Sewers. That and we promised it to the EPA which btw we hear England is signing a new document with the EPA and we have fines coming at us again.
Trying to be cordial but we will simply have to beg to disagree with one another. Thanks.
Well please list the webaddress to Freedom of speech. Because it sure looks like http://voiceofnewalbany.blogspot.com/ Other cities of similar size to your city have up to 50 TIF areas, and they have been used very successfully.
As far as the garage you cite, could you not consider the retention of businesses in the immediate area as a successful example? Has your city not experienced growth in that area since the garage was built? New businesses, expanded job base at existing banks, attorney offices, and the likes? Have you not had new cafe's open since its been constructed?I too sm trying to remain cordial but it would seem this isue is more about one clique against another instead of what could provide growth for your city.
Okay, I admit, there are two copies of that blog. Is the other anonymous person by chance the blog author I am dialoging with? I ask only because I would love to conitnue this converstation by another media. Perhaps our two cities provide insight to assist one another?
Any new growth in NA ie Wicks Pizza, bars, cafes, attorneys, do not use the parking garage.
please cite the cities comparable to ours having 50 tifs. This would cover the entire city limits. if we used the tif monies where they should be used instead of taking per se the tif monies from the parking garage to do work in other areas we probably wouldn't have this conversation. The blog site in mention had problems with layout and Photo Bucket. A new one has been created with a different blog site name but still Freedom of Speech.
Every city is different in so far as needs. Possibly your city has enough monies in their general fund but OUR'S DO NOT. The Administration overspent the budget last year by $3million and we have a City Council supposedly receiving monthly budget variances to track the money and do their job. Without Bank Recon, receipts, etc., we have bigger problems INTERNALLY.
Sincerely.
Sincerely
followed by a blank.
classic
Good points, but could the garage you mentioned be considered an anchor infrastructure that attracted the businesses to invest? Most private companies will not move into an area unless the local government first takes steps to improve an area. Could this be the case in that area?
I undertand this particular issue is in regards to a property that there is interest in creating a new government services building, correct? If so, is there a credible reason why your city needs this? Would the property be better suited for a commercial endevour that could add jobs to the community, and increase local income tax revenues if your city collects them?
IN regards to different cities have different needs. We are in the same state. And nearly every class 3 city and higher's budgets have been destroyed. Cities that were 3 fiscal years ago, wealthy by way of comparison, are in teh red by massivfe margins. Please do not confuse an national trend with local fiscal mismanagement. It may well be the case in your city, however it is worht investigating if it is mismanagement, or continuation of the budgetary trend happening everywhere. That would be your best starting point.
Try this link and see if it will provide some information useful to your situation.
> http://www.cdfa.net/cdfa/cdfaweb.nsf/fbaad5956b2928b086256efa005c5f78/6bea999491dc01b58625756a005a5048/$FILE/Indiana%20TIF%20Guidelines.pdf <
PARKING GARAGE is one big joke. The city has paid the utilities and cost for upkeep. The Parking Garage TIF fund has not re-paid our EDIT Fund the approximate $3.2 million to EDIT money used to make the bond payments on the GARAGE.
There is no one to collect fees at the entrance gate.
Rather than repay the $3.2 million to EDIT, the Redevelopment Board has used that TIF money to redo
Spring Street Hill and other city
pet projects.
A paved surface on the land used by the Parking Garage could have
handled the needed parking and would have been more convenient and a lot less costly.
In NA it is always a continuation of budget restraints but Admin overspending, faulty records keeping in all areas. Read our audit for the past 10 years with the same problems happening over and over and over and over, no matter what Council orders or when ever citizens protest against same.
Guess u would have to live here in order to have an inside look for at least the last 10 to 15 years. Again, I beg to disagree.
Right on 12:41 pm. the sound of truth being spoken.
Then may I ask what you all are doing to correct this? If the problems go back 15 years, that spans multiple election cycles. Has it been this way through all of these administrative cycles? If so, has your city retained the same people on the redevelopment baord if you have, same can be asked of your city council. Mayoral Administrations in any normal city do not hold enough power to create a continuation of such issues. Sorry we have to disagree, I was honestly trying to get a better understanding, but it would seem that avenue is a closed door. Good luck to you.
PARKING GARAGE is one big joke.
Mark Twain said, "The cat, having sat upon a hot stove lid, will not sit upon a hot stove lid again. But he won't sit upon a cold stove lid, either."
PARKING GARAGE is one big joke. The city has paid the utilities and cost for upkeep.
The existing parking garage was a package deal.
Community Bank said they'd build their building here if we put in a garage.
We built the garage, they build thier headquarters. They could not have built it here without the garage. They could have gone to Jeff.
How much tax revenue has the Community Bank builind produced? Many thousands per year. Many, many thousands. But that's only the direct benefit.
Other businesses have moved here (or kept from leaving) because of the proximity to the new building. Those spin offs creates jobs and generate tax revenue too.
So yes, I beleive the garage is a perfect example, but only if you look at the big picture, something fake professors refuse to do.
The Y would be the only true new facility in the downtown Garage TIF and they have oodles of parking. Paved lots.
The Real Estate business the City is in incomprehensible to me. Why would we buy CCE, pay the environmental cleanup costs for the gentleman and what? We are going to buy and then sell it for him? Will we make a profit. The offers on the real estate we are selling now are not comparable to what the City may have thought they would be. Or, maybe a storm will come along and we'll get insurance money? We have buildings unrented in the industrial park and are we going to buy those too?
We are looking at buying Coyle and cleaning up their mess and we bought the Church for the new city building but a storm came along and ripped the roof off. Doesn't the City feel the need to "INSPECT" any purchases they wish to indulge in?
It's not like the admin is being kicked out of the city county building. Staff keeps being added with more and more monies while every other form of government is cutting back. Simply can't figure my government's logic out and personally am tired of good money being thrown after bad. We have plenty of examples for this kind of reasoning. It's the same tired old story for New Albany and some of us are sick, literally, over certain issues. Does this make me less patriotic or unsensitive or a pain in someone's side? Probably one or more. Someone has to speak, no matter who's toes you step on because it is my opinion and you have to give me that one - I am entitled to one.
I was going to say I remembered the Parking Garage being part of the Community Bank project.
Sure Community Bank was going to stay in New Albany when they thought the boat was going in here and they would get the money. People know the Bank claims they never finished the top floor and so were not being charged taxes for the unfinished part. Has the top floor been finished and are we taxing THEM the full amount? No, that's right, they are in a TIF and I don't know how much money the Bank provided for the ride up the elevator.
That's the way I see it. Don't you remember the Tribune writing the article about the "Momma" and "Poppa" creators of the Garage? I do. Maybe you missed it.
1:03
I can see your points. And further I can easily understand your frustrations. BUt does your frustrations cloud your judgement of what another person on here call the bigger picture? New Albany is an Okay town. Not nearly what it was 20 years ago. BUt why is that? That is what you need to find out. Budgetary woes, administration errors are all normal for cities to experience. However the most damaging thing to mid sized cities can be political clique fighting. Persons who feel that they are more right than anyone else because they are mad or sick of symptoms of failure, but will not seek what true illness is causes the symptoms. Could that be the case there?
The Y would be the only true new facility in the downtown Garage TIF and they have oodles of parking. Paved lots.
False statement.
Extremely false statement.
1:07, start making sense. "Mamma and Poppa." Huh? Stick to one topic. Is this thread about TIF or is this about "little people" vs. "big corporation"?
1:12, will you run for council? please!
It's not like the admin is being kicked out of the city county building.
Actually, they are. There's a lawsuit over space.
1:27
Trust me you would not want me to. I would not be very welcome there.
I can see definate rifts that divide New Albany. There are those with the clear vision to see that it takes unpolpular measures to move forward, and I can see there are those willing to look at the long term goals of measures such as TIF districting. Most do not understand these are measure that take 20 years or more to show the full benefit of the acts. Far too often there are those who demand to see instant action and change. New Albany has been suffering from a chronic illness for many many decades. The same illness that has negatively impacted similar sized cities since the great depression. Its like a cancer, and it takes detailed long term treatment to put it into remission. Sometimes the cure can seem harsher than the illness itself. The chemotherapy for this illness is your city council and redevelopment commission, not the mayoral administrations. Sometimes you have to change the ingredients fo the the treatments to get the illness from spreading, in this case it would be replacing the majority of the council, and as such getting the political where-with-all to get new members of redevelopment commissioners in place.
On the subject of dissolution of Townships, does anyone know what would be the effect of this act on Township Fire Departments?
(still trying to wade through all of this info)
REDEVELOPMENT COMMISSION DOES NEED NEW BOARD MEMBERS, HOWEVER, THAT WOULD BE USELESS BECAUSE YOU HAVE DEPUTY MAYOR MALYSZ DIRECTING THEM.
HE HAS LEAD THE REDEVELOPMENT FOR MANY YEARS AND LOOK AT WHAT YOU HAVE TODAY.
THE MAYOR APPOINTS 3 OUT OF 5 OF THE REDEVELOPMENT MEMBERS.
SO-- WHO DO YOU THINK CONTROLS REDEVELOPMENT ?
ANSWER: MAYOR AND DEPUTY MAYOR
why aren't the council's appointees vocal about the problem on redevelopment, if they're so sure there's a problem.
the problem is that the council members don't understand enough about redevelopment issues. they don't know enough to complain, or to even recognize a problem.
who's going to complain about it? lawyer price? he complains about everything and makes virtually no sense. he's too stupid to understand what he's talking about.
Thank you 1:54. Maybe if they keep talking enough we can change up some minds. Then again I don't think so. 20 years.
We can't afford Bonds. Who knows what the interest would be based upon our books and debt? I'd hate to guess. We can't afford TIF's. My opinion.
Does New Albany have access to career voting records for council members to make an informed decision by the public to see which long standing council members have by way of poor voting records have stood in the way of New Albany rising above these issues? The council should hold more sway over appointments of commission members than the mayoral administration, do they not have the power via ordinances to approve or deny political appointments?
For someone from another city you know about our Council and you are slamming Price. Oh. We have one Council member questioning, who won't play the games and maintains New Albany is broke. I'm betting on him, Mr. Price.
Sure some of the Council could be better education about these issues. The majority of Redevelopment are still Mayoral appointments led by the Deputy Mayor, which is still an illegal position as Council never approved such a beast.
Now that I know you are local by getting personal regarding OUR city's Council, makes me question you saying you are not from NA. That would be my logic speaking. If it's not logical, it doesn't make any sense.
I had not named any particular council member names in New Albany. Hopefully I am only asking the right questions that are leading you guys to find answers that have been previously overlooked.
For someone from another city you know about our Council and you are slamming Price.
there's more than two people speaking in this thread. i "slammed" price. i live in new albany.
Thank you 2:28
Chris D.
All township functions would be moved under the County Governement.
Why are you still trying to wade through it all? I thought you made up your mind before you even knew enough about it. Did you decide it was worth looking into after spouting off?
Ouch, A little uncalled for...
I was stating my experience with the township trustees to date. But readily admitted there has got to be a better way, and that there always is a better way.
I am trying to look at the issue from all sides so I can vote with what will be best for the commuity at large, not just how it will effect the clinics.
Glad to see you are at least wising up Chris. Next time wise up before you post.
How about next time you read the entire posts before being judgemental? We can meet in the middle that way.
"There is a dedicated office, and staff who know what they are doing, who is eligible for help, when and under what circumstances.
If its not broke, dont fix it.
It is pointless tinker-toy politics to create the illusion of effecting positive change, where there is no need for change.
I just dont trust the judgement of the disconnected "never been there or done that" administration we currently have in Indy."
Christopher D.
"I humbly withdraw from this debate. . . "
Christopher D.
There is no meeting in the middle with you Chris. You will find something wrong with everything someone says that goes against your post. You have to be able to meet in the middle and acknowledge when you make statements that are not accurate or misleading.
You blame it on the administration when the decision is actually going to be made by the local voters.
You claim people won't know where to go to get the services when they actually they will be going to the same building to get the same services.
so on and so on
I would like to direct my comments to 11:21 about their statement accusing FOS saying Corporate Welfare. I read it and they asked a question not made a statement. I lso think it;s important to know Malysz is paid $93,000 to make decisions with our money, and might I say money we do not have. It's pretty bad that we have employees who does only what the mayor sats and then they have no clue how bad YIF's hurt our city and schools.
Parking passes will end up as a slush fund for the mayor like everything he slides through on a resolutions.
I contacted those people and ask them to explain TIF's and they did. As far as what I was told Freedom Of Speech hit the nail right on the head.
Where is the leadership in New Albany?
4:38 Who did you contact?
I lso think it;s important to know Malysz is paid $93,000 to make decisions with our money
yes, that's call government.
$93K/yr. is in line with similar posts in similarly sized cities.
"There is no meeting in the middle with you Chris. You will find something wrong with everything someone says that goes against your post. You have to be able to meet in the middle and acknowledge when you make statements that are not accurate or misleading."
Whatever...
You obviously do not know me at all. ANd your attempts at starting another argument are worthless. Especially since you are nothing more than a nameless faceless troublemaker. Probably the same in real life, just a bitter, hateful old woman carrying a grudge looking for someone to start crap with because Candy isnt giving you something to raise hell about.
5:18 PM
can you provide your source of information?
Shirley,
Could you elaborate on why you feel the current Township Advisory Board and Trustee should not be eliminated and the duties and services transferred to the County? I'm trying to understand your conviction on this matter when no services will be eliminated and it would provide cost saving to the tax payer. This is not a privatization or outsourcing. Is there more to your conviction of keeping this layer of government? Is there a mistrust of our county government or officials that you have not shared? Having unofficially declared your candidacy for city council, I'm very interested in your thoughts.
Also I would like to point out how HILARIOUS it is that I can post through out the day, eluding to the fact I am not in New Albany (which I wasn't) and ask the same things I ask posted under my name and you all engage me in civil conversation with out all the attacks.
Hell, You even asked if I would run for council.
And to think all I had to do was not double space paragraphs and sign in. It just shows how prejudiced most of you can be based on name association only.
Thanks for the good laugh at your shallowness!
I would love to see the post that you removed. Welcome back Erik and Staff of Freedom Of Speech. You folks are awesome.
Thanks Shirley for allowing me to express my opinions.
". . .just a bitter, hateful old woman carrying a grudge looking for someone to start crap with because Candy isnt giving you something to raise hell about."
Christopher D.
sounds like you are bitter, hateful, and sexist.
You can barely trust anyone downtown anymore. Inly a few good ones left and that's speaking volumes for local government.
Mr. D. you are totally delusional. Go back to pushing papers and blogging on company time. Get a life and stop throwing false accusations at the wrong people.
"It just shows how prejudiced most of you can be based on name association only"
The only name association I have with Mr. D is that the "D" must stands for DUMB.
Nope, not sexist. You know you're a bitter old nagging woman.
Notice how you refused to answer to the fact that there was engagement in dialog until my name popped in, and you know you took part in that.
And dear God, do you think you could get anymore "grade school" than D stands for dumb? My Lord, my 6 year old nephew can do better than that.
Next insult try moving up to about 5th grade level and try a your momma or your face.
Now if you will excuse me I have to get back to giggling over this little "social experiment".
Please try harder next time, oh by the way, the invitation still stands to meet face to face and discuss this over a nice cup of coffee...
Mr. D. you are totally delusional. Go back to pushing papers and blogging on company time.
until you prove who you are, we'll assume you're blogging on government time too.
do you work for the city or do you just collect welfare and live in the projects?
shirley deletes everything that references yvonne's criminal convictions for drug dealing.
I totally agree with you Shirley on saving our Township and the Advisory Board.
TELL US, HOW MANY MINORS AT IUS BUYS YOUR BREW?
HAHAHA you all are just pizzed off 'cause you got busted at your own game
Dear Anon 5:25
Senator Connie Sipes was the guest speaker at our monthly Business & Professional Women meeting this evening. She discussed all of the current bills now in the Legislature. One being the Township Trustees.
She did not give her opinion one way or another, she just explained the bill. But several members did express their ideas, and they made a lot of sense.
1. What would happen to the Township Fire Depts.?
2. In the smaller towns the Township Trustee knows each resident personally and knows who really needs help.
3. The Trustees Office in the City-County Bldg. has a constant stream of traffic.
4. Who would take over these duties? And how well could another dept. absorb these responsibilities?
The Trustee and the Advisory Board are the primary source of help for the indigent in Floyd County. Their jobs will only become harder in the next few years.
Saving a few pennies might look good on paper but we need to look at the big picture.
Saving a few pennies might look good on paper but we need to look at the big picture.
If only Steve Price understood this.
I wish we had some pennies to save. I know the logic which must be through red eyes and alcoholic influences, but New Albany doesn't have any monies.
You need to respect other classes of people who may not have the education you have, the money you have, etc. Some people do with what they have and if they are a laid back person playing music, taking care of his business, talking with taxpayers in a lower caste than you, I say more power to him. There but for the Grace of God goes a lot of us.
Go Steve go. He understands TIFS, bond interest rates, what is really going on behind the scenes. Ask the Mayor the reception he got at the VFW when he tried to talk to Price. As Price says it's nothing personal. I wish you would cry in another bucket Baylor. The one you have if you drink too much.
So removing the "Lords Prayer" is in your big picture Mr. Baylor?
The Christian's of New Albany will fight back and you will see who believes in God in this town.
Surely, John Gonder is not this stupid with all the issues facing us rate and tax payers.
Read the ordinance. Nowhere does it say that the Lord's Prayer is the default reading for city council meetings. By the council's own rules, if an Imam attends (he'd be a clergman, after all), he should be invited to say a few words.
I'm not wasting my time fighting something like this because it isn't important enough to me. But just be prepared when I bring a Wiccan to a meeting LOL.
From above:
"Someone has to speak, no matter who's toes you step on because it is my opinion and you have to give me that one - I am entitled to one.
January 18, 2010 1:03 PM"
How brave. How noble. How chicken.
It's the 21st century and we still say the lord's prayer in new albany government functions! That's crazy! How would you feel if you weren't christian and wanted to go speak at a council meeting? crazy.
To: The New Albanian. What part did you play in this new Ordinance?
I guess it's time for me to put my 2 cents in.
Here's the deal on Price -- he is a real person and I recent your continued attacks on him.
I watch him at council meeting, forums, various events and he has an amazing ability to relate and to remain totally focused on city issues.
I don't agree with him on all issues but I do like how he votes.
You attack him over his simple comments like nickels & dimes.
Did he offend your fine sense of decorum?
But he asks the right questions -- and I just don't understand what, specifically, Price did wrong here.
Again, I'm going only on the excerpt you post on NA Confidential and articles in our newspaper.
He will remain on message with our issues as long as he is our councilman.
He will not back down, he will not waver, he will stay focused, direct, blunt and on the task before him.
You and your total opposition in this city needs to learn to do likewise. Big time.
You make everything personal.
His mother was not a school teacher like yours and his mother did not attend college like yours did.
His parents did not own 130 acres in Georgetown like yours did.
He was not an only child like you were. His mother supported and raised 6 children and your mother did not.
So comparing apples to oranges, you are not one bit better than him.
You believe we in the masses our here are incaple of functioning on the intellectual level you think you are.
I'd think most of Price's other constituents would frown upon you if they actually saw you in action.
So give the guy his due. He made his money the old fashion way, he worked for it unlike you.
Legal Beagle
Mr.D.
Anonymous posters said no such thing, in fact for (those) new to us here, yes this is a pattern with Christopher. Three times in this short discussion he has falsely attributed to people positions they do not have.
Do you call your mother old lady?
My dear friend anon 4:02,
Pot or Kettle? Choose one?
(great now I am going be acused of being a racist because of the term black associated with that addage)
I usually call my mom, well mom. And I did not call anyone an old lady, I called YOU a "a bitter, hateful old woman carrying a grudge looking for someone to start crap with".
If you are going to pcik a fight, at least try and get your slander somewhat factual. Oh wait, that is beyond your capabilities.
LB,
And you accuse Roger of making everything personal? Talk about the pot calling the...
Here's the deal on Price -- he is a real person and I recent your continued attacks on him.
I'm a real person too, and I resent Price's continuing attacks on reasonable policy for this town.
He has never voted to invest in our future. He has never expressed a desire or belief that New Albany can be more than it is now.
He should resign and stop running my city into the ground.
Christopher enough on your sexist remarks. Just because someone makes a comment that you don't like doesn't mean they are a bitter old woman.
no, but being a bitter old woman makes someone a bitter old woman.
So 5:12 you want Council member Price to put our city in worse financial shape than we already are? You want him to give the mayor, redevelopment and you all everything you want. For God sake, how can we afford more fees?
Maybe you should run against Price. You got all the answers, Eoger.
Sorry, not being sexinst at all. But boy howdy you sure are defensive about this, hit raw nerve did I?
I think another poster was correct when they posted you're just ticked off because you were hasd at your own game.
Probably disturbs you to know I have a really big grin on my face, the more you run your flap, the more you prove my original point.
What is this about the Lord's Prayer?
shirley you are just another suckass who flip flops depending upon how the winds blow, nice choice you or pat mclaughlin for council, i will vote republican
baylor, you suck. there are a group of little people who will gladly buy you a one way ticket to any european country you think you belong in, pack up beer belly we dont want you here
When are you all going to wake up and realize Price is one of the few who does know what is going on downtown and also knows we do not have any monies to tinker round with, like all other governments. Our grandchildren are already in debt from this City. Go spend your personal money.
Go Price.
Iamhoosier,
I said it in the orginal post. What part of it did you not get? It is very easy to "figure out" what my point was: Read the Post.
How can you attack it?
Has Price borrowed $25,000 from his mother to keep his business going?
No.
Legal Beagle
true, roger is not the perfect messenger for curing what ails new albany. no one is. but the personal attacks on roger, the references to europe or to roger's parents ignores one inconvenient fact. roger hardly is the only person in town who has progressive political views.
progressive politics has been around a long time and draws people from all typed of backgrounds, including christians and non-believes, rich and poor, people who travel and appreciate other cultures and people who have never left the US, people who drink craft beer and people who drink bud light.
go ahead, attack the messenger. but until you attack the message itself, your words don't count.
LB,
I think that I understood just fine and so would anyone else with even a hint of an open mind. You just did a personal attack on Roger and you were condeming him for personal attacks. What part of that don't you understand?
Besides that, what do most of your attack points have to do with anything? Why are you attempting to justify Mr. Price's lack of knowledge? Are you saying Mr. Price is uneducated because his mother wasn't a teacher, etc? Lots of people have gotten an education under much worse circumstances.
As for your last comment, I have no knowledge of that. It's also none of my business or yours. However, when Mr. Price, an elected public official, says that his Council salary is the only thing keeping him going--I think that is relevant. So is the comment he made to me about never really caring much about school.
What you and others can't seem to grasp is, nobody thinks that Steve is a bad person. Just a bad councilman. Has nothing to do with being "better" overall. That's the difference, you are the one making it personal, not us.
One thing I know about bullies, you have to stand up to them, or you might as well go out and buy a tube if Vaseline and wear it around your neck, for next time.
The New Albanian is definitely a true blue bully with a few sidekicks.
Perhaps the faceless nameless name calling trouble making factions on here are the real bullies, or better to label that as assassins.
Bullies at least do it in the open, and you can avoid them when you see them coming.
Assassins hide and take shots at you from a distance and never give you the chance to fight back on a fair basis.
Which is worse?
Again, pot or kettle, please choose one.
I'll have mine with lox, cream cheese and just a few capers.
My Legal Bagel, that is.
Legal Beagle,
I did not delete your comment but I must say that you don't need to bring Roger Baylor's family into your argument.
I am not defending anyone we are all adults but we should leave families out of our discussions. I personally like Mrs. Price (Steve's mother) and I don't want anyone to say anything about her.
I don't know Mrs. Baylor but she should not be brought into this either.
Shirley is now defending Mr. Baylor. After everything he has said about my councilman. You lost my vote.
I WAS NOT defending Mr. Baylor. I just asked that you leave his family out of the argument as well as Mr. Price's mother.
Mr. Baylor and I do not agree on 90% of the issues and he certainly does not need me to defend him.
I was afraid he would bring Mr. Price's mother into the argument. If people start lashing out at each other using each other's families it will get very ugly very quickly.
I think the people who read and post on this blog have enough common sense to stick to the issues. Yes, it does get personal at times but for the most part is is about the issues, as it should be.
And yes, I have deleted comments made about people on a personal basis. That does not mean I am defending that person, it just means I want to keep to the topic.
If you disagree, I am sorry but that is the way I feel.
I think Shirley was actually defending Mr. Baylor's family(particularly his mother). You don't think that is fair? You don't want Shirley to be fair, is that it? Why do you want elected officials that are not fair?
So they can keep things the way they like it, underhanded, ugly and confrontational, thats why they dont want things fair, and why they feel the need to constantly bring up peoples family.
You back them into something they can not defend and thats what they do.
You lost my vote too.
And will probably gain more votes by being fair....
So you are running for council, Christopher D.?
Too funny.
Chris, you'll get more votes with a picture of a copperhead. *grin*
Or a puff adder, since in my sexist ways I reported assaulted my girlfriend with one!
Oh heck, if I ran for council what a slogan.....
Vote for Chrisssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss....
Where did CD ever say he was running for council?
Chris you sure you are not a women, your awful long winded and have an answer for almost everything.
Long winded and an answer for almost everything.
Sounds just like a man to me.
Geez and I get admonished for being sexist...
the laughs keep coming!
There are a lot of people FIRED up over tonight's City Council meeting. You will see new and old faces having caught wind of a BIG certain issue. Maybe there is hope for the good in New Albany.
Amen.
what more secret tapes & CIA recordings of the mayor making deals with north korean midget drug lords?
Hey, that is pretty cool. Hadn't heard those yet, LOL.
better watch yourself. north korean midget drug lords have gotten into the main street marijuana market now that there's an opening. read all about it at freedom of speech once we can figure out how to post again.
Can you believe the council meetin is still going on?
* John Gonder invites a priest there for Invocation.
Lord knows we need more than a priest to save our city.
* Full time council attorney went to committee. They are currently discussing $2 million for police and fire.
Gosh Roger, how can you put another meeting before our community?
Here you all thought he was the only one who could blog during a council meeting!
Ooops, almost forgot.
Garry claims $5.3 nillion was paid back to sewers. What a liar she is.
England says: we need to raise local tax and fees.
How about cutting your pay and eliminate all the BS you are trying to feed us.
Under funded our ass, stop the spending Dougie, lead by example or let someone else do the job.
11:02, shut up everyone knows you're not an accountant and don't know what the hell you're talking about.
Gosh Roger, how can you put another meeting before our community?
instead of running around to protests, why don't you start a business and employ people here in town.
I can believe the council meeting is still going on! Good reporting. Other ministers were in attendance, and I assume will continue to be there to give the invocation. Council has been begged to return the agenda to it's original order, city officials and then residents. No, they seem to have bigger fish to fry.
I don't understand. I am looking forward to seeing your notes Shirley! And others. Thanks.
11:08 You do not have to be an accountant to know that Kay Garry is a liar. As far as telling me and others to shut up, this debate is long over due and Garry and England should be forced to open the books.
Anyone who was involved in his last term knows exactly the sh*t they are pulling!
If England has nothing to hide he should be more than happy to open the books and prove us wrong.
He's a coward and a liar, prove us wrong Mr. No it all.
Actually, Mr. "No" it all would be Steve Price. "Know" it all ... well, that's different.
"Mr. No it All."
Funny.
I with you put a "Know Sign" in your front yard. Sounds like you don't have any evidence, just suspicious you cannot support.
By the way, you forget we had an audit and the state said nothing unusual.
Believe what you want. It can be fun. Sometimes when life is tough I like to imagine I'm a professor too.
Unless you want criminals to take over the city, people to keep drowning in raw sewage, and for all the roads to fall apart, get ready for:
Know New Taxes.
Know New Fees
You get what you pay for. Most people don't want the cheapest, sh*ttiest city no money can buy.
The Lilliputian Army marches against England! Unite wee ones raise your sewing needle swords and cry out "Down with Englands Tyranny!"
I know you guys feel big when you spout off your BS and think people will buy England's and Garry's crap.
If you are going to blame the anonymous little people you better get your freaken facts straight.
TRead my words ' Kay Garry lied about the $5.2 million being paid back in 2004.
It's time for all fifteen acccounts to be open and open the books on our General Fund.
Where is our money Mayor England?
Is this history repeating it's self?
Mr. or Mrs. 8:00. Can you please explain to us how come Spring Street, Silver Street, Charlestown and other streets flooded yesterday?
Several were streets recently paved.
Same Doug England sh*t, just a different year.
Anon "No",
In America, the one making the accusations has to prove them, not the other way around. Most of us were taught that in school, as I'm sure you were. So that only leaves me one question to ask:
Why do you hate America?
Maybe the streets flooded because it freaking rained for 3 days straight? Of course a puddle seems like a flood when your a little person.
Silver Street flooded? My goodness it must have been so bad that I did not even notice! There was the typical drainage running down Silver towards Spring, and just as it always is, on the shoulder of the south bound lane, where all one has to do is move over 8 inches and your out of it.
1900 block of Spring, same thing. Wait, could it be there is not a built in gutter on the shoulder. At worse it was MAYBE 2 or three inches of water flowing to the nearest drain.
First it was not a complete audit, the way Garry & England move money around has to be getting harder to do.
As far as the drainage goes, the guts doing the paving stated they thought the strom water and sewage problems should have been fixed first.
I want to know when the $5.2 million that Garry claims was paid back in 2004 and where did the money go?
She is such a liar, she would do anything England told her to say.
God Chris, your such an expert on every issue, aren't you?
What because I live in that area, and someone said it was flooded, when it wasnt?
Nice to know you are so obsessed with keeping up with me! Makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside!
It was flooded. Maybe not when you went through. Just because it wasn't when you went through doesn't mean it didn't flood. It always floods there!
That warm fuzzy felling you have inside is probably from your head being stuck so far up in your @ss.
Do you still suffer from brown stains on your matress?
When I went through, really?
I live around there, not a matter of going through.
A couple of inches of water is not a flood, unless of course you are a really really little person.
Oh I see you you've been reading my profile again, thanks for the attention!
and the reference to a cranial-rectal inversion, you're getting a little bit better on your insults, there may be hope for you yet.
Now if you will excuse me, the rain has caused a major flood outside, I swear there is at least a quater inch of water on the side of the road, I have to go build and ark...
Write back soon, I could use a good laugh
keep up the good work, chris!
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