Friday, January 8, 2010

TIF'S 101

What is Tax Increment Financing?

"Tax Increment Financing (TIF) allows cities to create special districts and to make public improvements within those districts that will generate private-sector development. During the development period, the tax base is frozen at the predevelopment level."
www.emich.edu/public/geo/557book/d212.tif.thml

and from the Ohio State University Extension Fact Sheet ( I know but it also applies to Indiana)
"...the TIF program enables counties, municipalities, and townships to exempt from real property taxation the new value added to a parcel or group of parcels as a result of new property investment. Unlike the EZ program, TIF can be used with residential development. Another difference involves the exemption associated with a TIF. The EZ program abates taxes, whereas TIF does not change the taxpayer's tax liability or the valuation of the taxpayer's property. Instead, TIF enables the taxpayer to make payments to a special fund in an amount equal to the property tax liability. These payments in lieu of taxes are used by the local government to retire debt incurred for in infrastructure improvements needed to support the new real property investment."

From what I can determine it works like this: a developer purchases a plot of land, the city improves the property with roads, utilities, etc. and the developer's property taxes are put in a special fund to pay the city back for their investment.

I can see how this helps with improvements to the city and how it benefits the property owner (developer). I can also see the other side which is a decrease in the amount of property taxes collected.

So, in other words, do we help to improve property at the risk of lower taxes collected? Or do we wait and hope that the property is developed anyway and collect the whole amount of property tax based on the property after improvements have been made? hmmmmmmmmmmmm

106 comments:

Anonymous said...

What is TIF?

TIF is something neither Steve Price nor fake professors will ever understand.

Anonymous said...

You wanna bet anonymous 6:29?

Anonymous said...

Why do you think Councilman Price voted NO along with Zurschmiede?

Anonymous said...

What type of improvements would be made if a tif was used for the coyle property? The roads and utilities are already there. Wouldn't the tif just be used by the city to finance the purchase of the property? If the city purchased the property and retained ownership this would create a long term problem. The city doesn't pay property taxes so there would no longer be taxes collected on the coyle property. Taxes currently paid on the property and going into the general fund would stop all together. There also would be no new taxes to go into the special fund to pay off the debt so other city money will have to be used to pay the debt. Does any of this sound familiar? Think about what happened with the city owned parking garage that was financed using tif. The city was forced to use edit funds to cover the shortfall and pay the garage tif debt off.

This is a very expensive way for the city to purchase the coyle property. Besides the expenses already incurred, there would be the cost involved in making it a tif, the cost of obtaining the financing, the cost of the property itself, the environmental clean up cost, the interest cost on the debt, the cost of maintaining the building, the value of the lost property taxes currently being collected, and the lost opportunity of using edit funds for some other purpose later since the city will end up having to use it to pay the coyle tif debt off. If the city is set on purchasing the property for speculative purposes then they should just use the edit funds now and pay cash for it.

The question on whether the city should even be buying the property is still a matter for debate.

Anonymous said...

I understand that 'new development' money is withheld from the New Albany General Fund, New Albany Township, Floyd County Government, NAFC SCHOOLS and our Library! That is the money that is put in a TIF, instead. How many TIFs are there now? How much money has gone into those TIFs?
Let the developers pay their own way!

Anonymous said...

"I understand that 'new development' money"
that is 'new development' TAX money.

Anonymous said...

WHY IN THE WORLD DID THE AUTHOR OF THIS BLOG USE OHIO STATE INFORMATION TO EXPLAIN THE TIF PROCESS.

TIF IN INDIANA IS CONTROLLED BY INDIANA CODE CHAPTER IC 36-7.

INDIANA CODE IS THE SUPREME LAW IN OUR STATE OF INDIANA.

WE ARE NOT CONTROLLED BY LAWS IN THE STATE OF OHIO.

Anonymous said...

Great points made 8:54.

Anonymous said...

If the city buys the Coyle Property,
which is now in a new TIF District,
then the property tax collections will end when the city makes this purchase because the city does NOT pay property taxes on city buildings.

So--- guys--- how do plan to pay off
your expenses that you have paid for
appraisals and clean up of the property.

DON'T ASK US TO PAY FOR IT, AS WE
DID NOT MAKE THE DEAL.

Anonymous said...

Our proven ACT OF GOD plan will pay for it! (the same plan we used for the tabernacle building).

We are planning on another windstorm or maybe even a tornado to come through and destroy the building. We will then collect a windfall from the insurance company. The taxpayers will be out nothing and we will have even made money for you.

shirley baird said...

THE AUTHOR OF THIS BLOG USED THE OHIO CODE BECAUSE SHE COULD NOT FIND AN UNDERSTANDABLE DEFINITION IN THE INDIANA LAWS AND USED ASK.COM INSTEAD.

Anonymous said...

You people don't understand how much Tif's and Tax abatements hurt our city.

Anonymous said...

TIF is one of the best tools we have to attract business, create jobs, and increase our tax base over the long run.

Christopher D said...

Heres a question to ask.

If we used TIF to purchase the coyle property, and set up a city hall on that site, yes we would loose property taxes from that property in the general fund, but how much would that be offset by the amount we pay the county rent for space in the current building?

Anonymous said...

Possibly Sewers may need to be fixed in this area, thus the guise of TIF. As you drive this area behind Coyle and around Coyle, notice the drainage and how steam is coming out of same. A disappointing thought on my part.

We do get some infrastructure fixed when they use TIF, rather than coming out and saying problems exist in this area. This eliminates problems associated with EPA and the flush sewer fund is used for other purposes.

RememberCharlemagne said...

Very good question Chris, I thought about this one myself.

The 150,000 includes many services.

The City would have to pay for maintenance workers and part timers. I don't know how much they make but I bet it is somewhere around 30,000 and I would think there is more than one. This would be 60,000 per year, plus insurance cost. If you add the assistants to the maintenance people and each possibly making 17,000 a year and benefits, we are coming ever so close to the 150,000. We haven't talked about utility costs yet either, or the increase cost to maintain an older building.
When you start looking at it from a cost perspective the Coyle property doesn’t make much sense, the only benefit I see in it is that it would make a unique building as city hall, so would have the Tabernacle, but when you get down to it, and start thinking about the details, the city can possibly do better with its resources.

My person preference would see more money be put into neighborhood redevelopment, then once our general fund is shored up and stable, we can think about fancy city halls.

RememberCharlemagne said...

This is how TIF has been explained to me. TIF was started in the early 1970s because the state assemblies put a tax levy on cities. The levy prevents the city from rising revenues higher than 4 to 5 percent per year.

An example, as explained to me, was if you take a piece of property valued at 40,000, and make improvements, and the value increases to 80000, the city would not be able to gain any new taxes because of levy, all that would happen, because of the levy,is surrounding property tax contribution would be lowered.

To me this sounds crazy but I asked several times to the redevelopment department if this was an accurate understanding and each time they said yes.

Because of the 1970 tax levy the assemblies introduced TIFs. TIF was setup so a city could designate an area as a TIF or a Redevelop Area, and through this TIF they could bond out and make improvements. Through the improvements, and therefore increased value, and therefore increased tax revenue, the bonds could be paid back. Eventually the TIF would expire, typically 20 years or so, and all tax revenue would revert back to the general fund.

The arguments against TIFs are that when a TIF is created it freezes the assessed value of that area, prior to the improvements, only the original assessed value, prior to TIF creation, continues to fund the general fund, any new assessed tax value is retained for that TIF area only. Schools, Police, Fire, and the like are left out from the new taxes.

This is the explanation that has been given to me, by the redevelopment department, several times,and recently I have been given a different explanation of the tax levy, which if it is true, would explain a lot about New Albany’s fiscal problems.

RememberCharlemagne said...

The other explanation is that the levy has nothing to do with tax revenue, only municipal fees.

So if the city did improve property or neighborhoods they would collect all increased tax value. The only reason for TIF is it’s a tool to bond with.

The previous post has been New Albany's understanding for a long time and it would explain why, a rumor has it, that New Albany has a lot of TIFs compared to other cities and maybe why city government hasn't taken a greater interest in neighborhood redevelopment.

And I left out that there are HOTIFs or Housing TIFs that are specific to neighborhoods.
These explanations are general.

Anonymous said...

Indiana TIFs explained in detail here:

http://www.bsu.edu/webapps2/directory/cecd/detail.asp?ID=227

Anonymous said...

J - please quit running with your half-assed understanding (as usual) and do your homework.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous 9:02

you are misguided on whom you are telling to do their homework. the poster stated he confirmed his understanding with the redevelopment officials and they agreed with him. if you feel the poster is wrong then you must feel redevelopment officials are wrong also. interesting that you have not provided any solid facts to dispute the comments.

some people really want to understand and learn about the issue. could you practice what you preech and do your homework and provide us with some facts? your childish insults are only telling us you know nothing about it.

The New Albanian said...

My person preference would see more money be put into neighborhood redevelopment.

No argument there.

Daniel S said...

I'm a liitle confused. Been working on a more detailed story, hope to have it this week. But it seems there's some confusion between tif and abatement. A tif doesn't neccessarily go straight to the good of a developer. It can be used to fix sidewalks and improve streets. I don't see how that's any sort of handout. Plus with the state limiting property taxes, it seems like a tool to improve infrastructure. Can it be misused? I'm sure, but I haven't seen any evidence of that here. If you have, please email me details.
Also remember, the state changed tif laws last year and there's now a non voting school rep on the rd commish specifically for tif issues.

Anonymous said...

Know it all J sees a misuse so there must be one. COO COO!

RememberCharlemagne said...

The only way I can see that a developer is helped by TIF is indirectly.

If I'm not mistaken, TIF was used to build the new roads in the north industrial park. The new tenant did not have to invest that expense their self.

The developer of the commercial property behind the McDonalds and Big Boy on Grantline Rd had to pay their own expense for Roads.

It isn't a great comparison but it is all I could think of.

Thank You Daniel, for taking up the TIF story.
Some things I would like to see answered would be:
How many TIFs does New Albany have and compared to other Cities.

How much money is currently in the TIFs?

And I would like to know more about the 1970 levy and its effect on tax revenue.

If you need the Women’s name that
gave me the other explanation I would be happy to give it to you.

RememberCharlemagne said...

Never claimed to be a good writer.

Math was more of my subject but I always enjoyed language arts.

RememberCharlemagne said...

I do think that understanding TIF is a very important issue for New Albany and especially if the levy is understood wrong.

Money that is locked up in TIF could be going to the general fund, and as we have now, it seems like certain councilpersons and possibly the Mayor is looking to use EDIT to subsidies the general fund. If the services are being underfunded, as Mayor England says, then for the short term there is nothing else to do other then reduce services and continue to demand accountability.
On the other hand, if New Albany has too many TIFs and it's artificially reducing our general fund, then the TIFs can be canceled, and the general fund increased. Doing this would free up EDIT for redevelopment purposes only.

I am only speculating because my understanding could be all wrong.

The thing I love about EDIT is that there are hardly any rules regulating it, unlike state and federal monies. Some of the rules for the 6.7 million will make it less effective than if it was EDIT.

Daniel S said...

I'll take note of your questions and be sure to ask them

Iamhoosier said...

I appreciate the discussion and research on TIF's. It's a complicated area and I find myself, at times, scratching my head even though my basic understanding is the same as Shirley's and RemChar's. It's not something that most of us have time to think about every day, so a refresher course is always welcome. Thanks.

One thing that I think we all need to remember, TIF's and abatements are tools. They are not inherently "evil". They were designed to be helpful under certain circumstances.

Anonymous said...

This comment is to Iamhoosier, I agree somewhat, but at this time both TIF and Tax abatements are evil as pit in your own words.

Iamhoosier said...

Care to explain why? Of course, if all you got is, "we ain't got no money", don't bother.

Anonymous said...

by law tif cannot go to new albany's general fund.

every single penny in the tif fund is tax revenue that we would not have reveived since tif only is against IMPROVEMENTS made in the tif district after the district took place. property tax payments on land and buildings already in the tif district at it's creation does not go into the tif fund.

even if you assume someone would have built a build in a district without the new streets, sidewalks, and street lights that's funded by tif, the money still would not go to new albany's general fund.

it would go to indianapolis's general fund.

Anonymous said...

look at FOS's website.

looks like her copywrite violations included her background image.

Christopher D said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
The New Albanian said...

The background image photos show a "moved or deleted" message.

But it is always nice to see college professors learning new blog features, even if they're purloined.

Anonymous said...

11:40 what are you sniffing on? You need to call our favorite controller to correct your statement.
Your comment is totally false.

Anonymous said...

Roger is this all you have to contribute to the conversation here attacking FOS flag?
Y guess being unamerican as you are speaks volimes.
Good grief, what you need to worry about is keeping your Bank Street Brewhouse doors open.
Get off your ass an hustle your beer.

The New Albanian said...

My, testy, aren't we? Didn't Santa give you a remonstrance?

My browser will not display the images. Looks like my spam filter works, after all.

Anonymous said...

11:40 what are you sniffing on? You need to call our favorite controller to correct your statement.
Your comment is totally false.


I challenge you. Go on the record, tell me specifically which sentence is incorrect, and then we'll see who's sniffing something.

I believe we've had TIF discussions here before, duh?

Anonymous said...

If anyone on here or if you are reading this blog, it will take a hell of a lot more than this to shut Freedom Of Speech up.

That's a promise!

Anonymous said...

Is the hacker who hacked into Freedom Of Speech going to try to destroy that blog going to try to HACK into INDIANA CODE OF LAWS online and
destroy the laws of STATE OF INDIANA.

LET US INFORM THE INDIANA ATTORNEY GENERAL TO BE PREPARED TO PROSECUTE THIS COMPUTER HACKER!

Anonymous said...

This blog site is called VOICE OF THE PEOPLE.

OK--People, we need to speak up and demand that this hacker be charged by the PROSECUTOR and sent to jail.

Anonymous said...

Big words. Now speak intelligently about TIFs.

Anonymous said...

If anyone on here or if you are reading this blog, it will take a hell of a lot more than this get Freedom Of Speech to use correct spelling and grammar.

That's a promise!

Anonymous said...

Even though he messed up your pretty site, don't call the procecutor on Professor Erik. He's done a lot for this community, so I read on FOS.

Anonymous said...

wow, it's been hours and hours. professor erik still can't fix his background. he has time to rant here but doesn't have time to figure out how to change a picture on his blog.

Anonymous said...

The Fatal Flaw of TIF critics is that the critics assume that the new construction would have happened anyhow.

Often this is wrong.

The reason why you have new construction (and thus new taxable property) in a TIF district is because of the improved streets, sidewalks, lights...and dare I say parking garages....that the city buildings in the TIF district with TIF funds.

Anonymous said...

11:40 what are you sniffing on? You need to call our favorite controller to correct your statement.
Your comment is totally false.


I'm still waiting for you to tell me specifically which line is false.

Hmmmmm?????

Anonymous said...

I endorse the use of TIF funds but only in very limited cases. Let me give you an example of how TIF can be a success that the little people can be proud of!

The city issues a $1,000,000 TIF bond for a family owned manufacturing facility downtown, such as a marijuana grow lab on Main Street.

Watering all that pot requires additional sewer and waste-water lines. The lights require electric upgrades.

The TIF bond proceeds would be used to upgrade the electric and sewer. Additionally, the sidewalk would be paved so that clients can more easily purchase fresh, local, organic greens.

Since the neighborhood now has a convenient place to buy drugs, young families begin purchasing and restoring homes along Main, Market and Spring Streets.

As property values increase, the additional tax revenues go to pay off the bond.

Win-Win, right Professor?

Anonymous said...

Today it occurred to me how irrelevant the opinions of the 5 people who post on the blog really are which in a way is a shame. Get off your computer and do something productive. all of you.

Anonymous said...

and that means YOU too, 10:55?

or your first post here?

Anonymous said...

Insults and using other families to illustrate your point make it clear where your comments are coming from, CITY HALL.

3 blogs now. Says a lot about who would possibly have any INTEREST seeing who is posting, LOL.

Regenerate.

Anonymous said...

feel free to jump to more conclusions. i haven't been in city hall in months.

shirley baird said...

Paul Etheridge is also running for Mayor in 2011 as a Dem. I have also been told that Paul Ehteridge for Mayor is having a pancake breakfast at Appleby's on April 11(All the pancakes you can eat for $5.00, what a deal)

shirley baird said...

Precinct 32 hopes to adopt Payne-Kohler Rd., similar to the Adopt-A-Highway plan. Carol Shope has been asked to participate in the preliminary planning.

shirley baird said...

Correction: Paul Etheridge's pancake breakfast is APRIL 10TH.

Anonymous said...

Who is Paul Ehteridge?

Anonymous said...

Appleby's????

I expect a mayoral candidate to be more supportive of LOCAL businesses.

Lots of good New Albany owned breakfast places in town.

Iamhoosier said...

Pratically every Saturday morning there is some sort of fundrasier at Applebees. Boyscouts, Girlscouts, cheerleaders, Animal Rescue League, etc. Are there local businesses that also offer this service to groups? I believe that it would be hard for a local place that offers breakfast as a part of their business(Applebees does not serve breakfast)to do this.

Anonymous said...

Paul Etheridge???? God save us! He is basically a good old boy republican that turned democrat. he is worse than Coffey. Even if he was a saint he doesn't have enough money to win.

Anonymous said...

He's got $221,000 that should do it, right Paul. David White will be his controller. How's that for a real news flash?

Anonymous said...

Doug spent $93,000 and 60% was from out of New Albany.
God does he love those developers.

Anonymous said...

I wouldn't vote for England if he was running for 'outhouse' inspector.

Anonymous said...

I wouldn't vote for England if he was running for 'outhouse' inspector.

Anonymous said...

11:40 what are you sniffing on? You need to call our favorite controller to correct your statement.
Your comment is totally false.



i'm still waiting for you to tell me specifically which part of the TIF description is incorrect.

i'll take your silence to mean you don't know.

Anonymous said...

Doug spent $93,000 and 60% was from out of New Albany.
God does he love those developers.


Okay smarty pants. Please tell us. Which new projects has England undertaken that have benefited out of town developers?

I'm talking about stuff actually under construction or stuff actually completed.

Spring Street Hill? Low bid AND a local job. New sidewalks? Local jobs.

Tell us how this massive conspiracy is playing out.

Anonymous said...

When is FOS ever going to fix that stupid background? Is she just a computer idiot or what?

Anonymous said...

I wouldn't vote for England if he was running for 'outhouse' inspector.

Outhouses. That was Price's low cost solution to the sewer problems, right?

Typical Price. Penny Wise. Pound Foolish.

Anonymous said...

How are the tea parties going?

Tea lost all its steam?

Yawn

Anonymous said...

If he has $215,000 why is having a fund raiser 13 months before the primary. Has he established his campaign committee? If not, it sounds like he has already broken campaign finance laws.

RememberCharlemagne said...

Does anyone else think that the city's website is horrible?

Am I missing a link or something, I can't find any up to date information.

Do they post the times for different meetings?

Anonymous said...

RemberingCharlemagne,

Go to City web page and click on meeting times. If you think that's bad, start reading the minutes of meetings, they are way behind but Marcey got a raise and additional employees.
Go figure!

Anonymous said...

Mr. or Mrs.12:16, Erik attends Tea Parties, maybe you need to direct that question to Freedom Of Speech.

Anonymous said...

RemCha, I agree with you for once.

The city's current website is not designed to encourage citizen education or citizen participation.

There's room for vast improvement.

Anonymous said...

I would ask Erika about the tea parties but she's too busy trying to fix her background.

Mission Impossible, it seems.

Anonymous said...

Who is Paul Ehteridge?

Iamhoosier said...

A TIF can be dissolved but any bonds pledged by that TIF must first be paid off. Also. even after dissolution, it's quite possible that the entire increased valuation(if any)may not actually draw us any new revenue--due to the 4% growth limit. So, we could face the very real possibility of no, or very little, tax revenue increase and the TIF money gone. Infrastructure improvements still needed but no funds of any kind to pay for them.

Anonymous said...

most cities our size have all of there financial info online. i think that would go a long way to end some of the budget conspiracy theories.

Anonymous said...

Good explanation from IAMHOOSIER regarding TIFS. Can you imagine with ALL of New Albany's TIFs how much tax revenue we are losing?

TIFs, personally, drive me crazy. A tool when the rust belt existed and probably needed, but how many do we have? 6, 7, 8?

Can they TIF the entire city?

Anonymous said...

How much has been built in New Albany over the past ten years versus how much has been built in the suburbs?

The county is getting all the new assessed value. TIF helps us get more new construction that otherwise would be out past Meijer.

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Christopher D said...

Great Just what we need, a spam add that could make some of the politicians taller and fatter!!! LOL

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...

You are one sick puppy 9:09. Maybe you are threaten by Erik's man hood. I bet you one thing, Erik has some b***s to stand up to you and others.
Get a life why don't you.

The New Albanian said...

Not sick "puppy," bu sick RABBIT, as in Harvey the Rabbit, Erika's closest non-living relative.

Anonymous said...

With that new line of products, I don't think I want to see FOS's new background image.

Anonymous said...

I'm certainly not threatened by the Erik's intellect.

Anonymous said...

Visit VOP.

The before and after pictures are impressive.

Iamhoosier said...

1:17,
I'm sorry, I don't think you understood my comment. It's probably my poor writing. As I stated earlier, a TIF is neither bad or good. It's a tool for retaining increased tax revenue for infratsturcture improvements in a defined area.

In a very general and basic explanation(as I understand it)New Albany is already taking in the maximum(or close to it)amount allowed under the state rules. YOu can only grow the general fund about 3-4%/year. A TIF area allows the city to keep the extra tax revenue from any increased property valuations without going against the GF cap.

Doing away with all TIFs and abatements, in essence, would not provide New Albany with any more(or very little)extra tax revenue. Your tax rate would be lttle lower and that can be a good thing. However, it is not the only thing. Maybe not the most important thing.

Anonymous said...

Doug spent $93,000 and 60% was from out of New Albany.
God does he love those developers.


We asked for an explanation of apparently incorrect these numbers.

No one has been able to cough one up. Not even a fake one.

Still waiting.........

Anonymous said...

Erik has some b***s to stand up to you...


B***s? Impressive statement as I don't know who Erik is and Erik doesn't know who I am.

Two strangers standing up to one another, neither knowing where the other is.

Anonymous said...

Erik has some b***s to stand up to you...

What does this mean? “b***s”? Let’s speculate.

1. Erik has some boots to stand up to you.

I thought boots were made for walking, not standing up.

2. Erik has some beak’s to stand up to you.

Beak’s Best is a good beer by NABC….and after five or six even a cowardly professor might be feeling courageous.

3. Erik has some bowls to stand up to you.

Selling the pills is bad enough, doc.

RememberCharlemagne said...

This is what I have a hard time understanding Mark.

The 4%-5% gernal fund levy.

I take it that we are refering to the same thing.

If there is a general tax levy, where does all new growth tax go?

Anonymous said...

good lord, J. For a know-it-all you are slow on the uptake.

Anonymous said...

Anon 10:14

How about your uptake on it? Please explain your understanding or is it that the only contribution you can provide are childish comments?

Iamhoosier said...

I'll try to use an example, using round figures and simple(not real) rates.

$100,000,000 assessed valuation @ 1% tax rate would generate $1,000,000 in tax revenue. Basically your general fund(GF)budget. Call this Year 1.

For Year 2, the state says that your revenue(GF) can only go up 4%, which would be $40,000. How do you get this "40"? One way, tax rate goes to 1.04%(assuming valuation remains same). Another is to keep rate @ 1% because valuation has went up by $4 million dollars to 104,000,000.

Now, if valuations went up by $20 million, the tax rate would drop to .867%. Sounds good doesn't it?

Except, how do you get that $20 million in increased valuation? One way, for example, a new factory with new jobs. BUT, where that factory would go needs to have infrastructure improvement of, say, $4 million. Bonded over 20 years that's $200,000(simple)/year. Where to get the $200,000? Can't get it from the GF, it can only go up approx. $40,000/year. This where a TIF comes in.

The new factory area is made TIF zone. The $20 million in increased valuation does not count against the GF caps because the tax revenue generated by the $20 million factory is "kept" in the TIF zone and used to pay off the bond for the improvements($20million X 1% = $200,000) The city can still use it's $1,040,000 for fire, police, paving, etc. Tax rates don't go up. Tax rates don't go down, either. BUT we have a new factory, with new jobs, and prospects for a brighter future by planning ahead and not being too short sighted.

Now, before the anons start blasting me, remember I said SIMPLE. I realize that there other funds(EDIT, for ex)that could be used. However, we have been discussing TIF's. The above is my attempt at a simple example of how a TIF zone should work. I'm not saying that it is how they always have worked or that TIFs can't be abused.

Of course, this is just my understanding. If I'm way off base, I'm sorry.

Anonymous said...

Iamhoosier,

I hope that the England administration or someone downtown did not give this info to you. Because what your saying is "totally misleading."

TIF's are part of the problem and not the solution.

shirley baird said...

Anon 9:35 please elaborate how IM Hoosier's remarks were totally misleading. I thought he made sense.

Anonymous said...

Assessed value is not increasing as it should because the increase in the TIF area is not part of the equation, therefore this will cause an increase for the taxpayers. The areas under TIF are not supporting the GF at the same rate others are. As more TIF's are created, this creates a heavier burden on those not in the TIF area to cover the budget of the GF.

Anonymous said...

trying to understand is a good thing. assuming you understand when are completely out of your field and then making crazy statements based on that "understanding" is, well, what j does.

Iamhoosier said...

I will agree, to some extent with Anon 12:16. I mentioned in my example that tax rates would not go down. The only way that your scenario is true, is if you assume that the increased valuation in TIF areas would have happened anyway. Are you implying that TIFs are never good?

Iamhoosier said...

12:53,
Not really sure who are "talking" to. I assume it's me because of the word "understanding". If my understanding and example is wrong, please teach me. What is wrong with my example?

Anonymous said...

IamHoosier

No, I am not saying they are never good. When used cautiously and wisely then they can be a great tool.

The problem that occurs is with increased development there comes with it increases in the need for general fund services. (police, fire, etc) The new development areas are creating the increased need but are only contributing based on the pre-development level of services.

If the solution is always a new tif then you get into problems such as we see with New Albany of not being able to support the level of general fund services needed.

Anonymous said...

Assessed value is not increasing as it should because the increase in the TIF area is not part of the equation, therefore this will cause an increase for the taxpayers.

This does NOT increase costs to other taxpayers. The city receives the same amount of revenue from the properties taxed the year earlier. Costs are not increased. Other tax bills do not go up.

The TIF freeze on the assessment begins to phase out IN THE SECOND YEAR. It's hardly a permanent reduction in tax bills.

Since new construction in the TIF district keeps money local instead of sending it to the STATE's general fund, in the long run it LOWERS taxes for all taxpayers.

Iamhoosier said...

2:18,
Unfortunately, even though you seem to be agreeing with me, you are confusing TIFs and Abatements. Abatements start to pay back in the 2nd year. TIF's are not a reduction in taxes. Any increased tax revenue from a TIF are has to be spent in the TIF area only.

It's confusing, I know.

Iamhoosier said...

2:18,
You are correct with your last statement.

"Since new construction in the TIF district keeps money local..."