Tonight's meeting lasted about 2 1/2 hours with a lot of talk and not much progress.
I was not present for the sewer board meeting at 4:00 but the main topics were briefly explained in the 6:00 meeting with the City Council. All of the council members were present and everyone expressed their opinion. Some more loudly than others.
At the beginning; Mr. Malysz discussed a memo from the Mayor which stated that the Administration is in the process of talking with EMC about terminating their contract as soon as possible instead of letting it continue until 2012. Mr. Ceasar suggested that a Sewer Board member and a Council member be included in these meetings so everyone can stay updated on the progress. Mr. Malysz seemed to agree.
Mr. Skomp of Crowe Horwath kept telling the council that time is running out and the city needs to act now! He and Mr. Fifer, sewer board attorney, kept stating that the city is in dire straits and we need to accept the offer from SRF (State Revolving Financing). In essence the state is offering to re-negotiate our bond interest rate from around 3.9% to 2.5%. He said if we don't hurry and sign the agreement the EPA will take over our sewer utility and charge whatever rate they want. Scary stuff.
I feel that we are being rushed but then I remember that the firm of Crowe Horwath was hired by "us" and so their loyalty should be to us. In other words they should have our best interest at heart.
There were nine citizens who spoke at the podium with various messages:
David Andrews from Georgetown said that the New Albany Council has a difficult job setting rates for citizens who vote for them, and added that Georgetown has committed to the 36% rate increase.
Cat McDaniel, a 30 year New Albany resident and businessman said that the city is delaying in fixing the problem because it is cheaper to hire a consultant. He added that previous councils did not make the hard decisions and raise rates gradually.
Nancy Morton a resident in the County Line Rd. area said that she and her neighbors have cut back as much as possible.
Vicki Denhart, a New Albany resident, asked Mr. Skomp where his company got their numbers for their report. He replied that they did a review but not a full audit because it was not necessary. She added that EDIT and TIF funds should be used, and that a forensic audit was needed. She also stated that tap in fees and permit fees should be raised so the developers would pay their fair share.
Steve Schmeltz said he always complied with rate increases and purchased necessary sump pumps, etc. but this rate is just ridiculous. He asked where the funds had gone, and that millions of dollars had gone for naught.
Marilyn White, a resident of Powder House Lane, was confused because she pays her water bill to Edwardsville and her sewer bill to New Albany. She also has a flat rate rather than a rate based on consumption. Mr. Fifer and the sewer board promised to look into the matter.
Kay Hartman owns apartment houses in New Albany and said that if she ran her business like the city officials run New Albany she would have been out of business years ago.
Greg Reitz questioned why a household of three people would have a $70.00 sewer bill.
These people are just examples of the population and how distraught everyone is.
I don't want my sewer bill raised either, but I don't think EDIT should be used to pay to keep the rates from being raised. That would unfairly raise the rate for the taxpayers and not the businesses. Kroger, Walmart, Target, Kmart etc. do not pay EDIT. Taxpayers may lose their jobs and therefore EDIT would go down but these big stores are here to stay. Let's let them pay their fair share of the sewer bill. Yes, I know the fee would be passed on to the shoppers, but we can control how much we shop but we can't control how much of our taxes go to pay for sewer bills. I also agree that tap in fees should be raised. Yes I know the developers will pass this along to the home buyer but everything else is included in the price of a home, such as materials, so the price of a new home may be affected but not by a great amount.
Bottom line, the residents of New Albany and the fringe areas are doing the best they can. People can only cut back so far.
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217 comments:
1 – 200 of 217 Newer› Newest»Thank you for the report Shirley. Scarey stuff indeed. A lot of that going around right now.
So the cry of the Denhart crowd is now..."No new fees, no new taxes...well, except for this one!" Silly little people.
Think paying your bills is expensive? Try tacking on the late fees, interest and attorneys fees for when you default. It's just like defaulting on any other bill. We promised certain things when we borrowed the money for the sewers and we're not keeping up our end of the bargain. If we don't raise the rates now, it's just going to cost more in the long run. Why are council members dragging their feet? Oh, that's right, they cannot do simple math.
Shirley, I'm certain the SRF refinance rate is to 2.5%, and slightl.y less certain that the current rate is 3.9%
Raising the cost of sewer credits on Developers is a new fee? Ha! With ratepayers paying a 5 to 2 ratio JUST TO GET 1 Sewer Credit does not equal to a level playing field.
WE did not mispend, misappropriate or screw the books up. If some ratepayers want accountability, so BE IT.
The City is out of scare tactics as are a handful who love to deride anyone who speaks the truth.
There is no way to dispute Mr. Utz nor Mr. Ledford.
Skomph cannot say the sanitation monies and the sewer monies are not in the same account; thus the questioning of his numbers.
Let the Controller figure out why the Sewer Board DID NOT receive the other payment of TIF money. Let the Controller separate the funds so we quit subsidizing sanitation.
In other words, let the chips fall where they may.
A lot have worked hard to achieve success with the sewers only to observe the same o same o over and over and over again.
RATEPAYER
Taken from FEBRUARY 11, 2010 Sewer Board meeting. (Bill Utz was a former Sewer Board member) "Bill Utz addressed the board and stated that he looked over the Crowe Report and he has some questions on it as well as other documents. He stated that the Crowe Report should include a full year of 2009 so that they can compare apples to apples. He explained that the fees being collected are less than what was listed by two other accounting firms and he doesn’t understand why that is. He informed them that the Sewer Board was supposed to receive $900,000.00 from TIF and they received $450,000.00 at the end of 2007 but they have never received the second portion." ...
"Mr. Utz questioned the need for the $100,000 for easement purchases because he would be hard pressed to see how they are going to use that in 2012 & 2014.
Mr. Marinaro explained that they added that in just in case."
"According to Christmas, CAP projects have eliminated 97 percent of the volume of sanitary sewer overflows, or SSOs, in the system since implemented."
Oh yea, but now they backed up into people's homes and you can bet they didn't count that volumn!!!
Did they ever pay those poor people for all their damages to their homes and properties? If so, is that why the sewer rates are really going up?
"He (Mayor) hailed the sewer board and council for attempting to educate the public on the rates, but the big news was his declaration that’s he’s attempting to end the city’s contract with EMC early.
Wonder why? Will he try to keep the EMC employees on as city employees?
Hey, do you guys want to work for the Mayor?
to the Bookseller. You're right, I changed the numbers in the article. It was late and I was still mad when I wrote that.
thanks
Thanks for the report.
I attended last evenings sewer meeting. Anyone who ask a question, they seem to look drmb founded. Some former councilman and sewer member hammered several developers and current sewer members.He seemed very knowledgeable of the system.
2:09 That was one statement read by the lady fighting for ratepayers and she stated a long list of fees that should be raised on developers. I was impressed with her presentation, they all sat there in shock.
The crowd loved it when she told them and had to show Benedetti just in Sanitation and General fund alone our city is now $11 million in the red.
When she told Benedetti, can't you read, it's right there. That was a hoot.
Malysz didn't seem happy that was said and got out.
Some big guy from Crowe kept repeating: you got to do this now (over & over) or EPA will come after us.
What got several in the crowd, you could sense several were pushing to do it now.
K. Garry left right after the sewer board meeting. I wonder why?
I walked away with my husband, we both shook our heads, and we had a bad taste in our mouths, like when you go and look at cars, something wasn't right.
Their numbers were not adding up; 70-36-19-3-62-74%. Several city employees stated our rate were only going up $3.00 but then said; no more than $17.00.
I'm still confused.
Yes, the State Revolving Loan Fund Bonds need refinanced but what worries me are the junk Bonds the CITY is not talking about.
I would think those Bonds are the ones the City should really be worried about and are skirting that issue altogether.
The City can not put together the monthly book provided to EPA because the lack of knowledge and tools (too much technical information and no tools to do same). Rob Sartell is no fool. I hope EMC doesn't hear about England's offer AND where are we going to get the money to buy out EMC's contract? Out of a rate hike?
11:23, were you there? What meeting room were you in? That's NOT what was said. I'm thankful she's fighting for me and my family, but most of all my parents and grand parents on a fixed income.
Good point anonymous. I'm with you on that one. How will they buy out their contract? Look at the revenue we lose from the three local schools. Do they pay a sewer fee?
Galena doesn't pay a sewer bill but the ones in the City do. Housing Authority doesn't pay a sewer bill because they are Federal. We are not even allowed to look at their sewer lines and have always wondered if some of the Inflow/Infiltration (I/I) possibly may come from the Housing Authority.
Housing authority doesn't pay a sewer bill? I find that hard to believe. Not saying that I know for a fact that you are wrong but that just doesn't sound right. It it is true, we need to know more about it.
Housing Authority pays exactly like everyone else. Another conspiracy theory down the drain. Benedetti inquired last night and there's your answer.
We were always told the Housing Authority does not. Guess it depends on who answers the questions, huh?
You know, YOU ALL ARE ALWAYS THE ONES TALKING ABOUT CONSPIRACY THEORIES. I imagine that is because some of you have a big conspiracy going on, huh?
Kelly Welsh was at the meeting last night and said that all of the residents of the Housing Authority pay a water and sewer bill based on usage.
I must admit that I did not think they paid for water either, not that I had asked anyone, I just assumed.
By closing 3 schools in the city and moving those children to other schools, along with the 5th graders, the school administration is removing those amounts of sewage from certain Sewer Basins and adding additional sewage to other Sewer Basins. Will the sewer pipes in the designated basins (and school buildings) be able to handle the added flow capacity? Did the sewer engineers check those calculations? Was EPA told about this? Will the ‘empty’ school buildings need sewer credits to allow for ‘new’ usage? I don’t think the city ‘asks’ EPA for additional credits for ‘new’ use of any buildings
So FOS says England's school closure letter is "BS."
Why does FOS hate New Albany children?
Did anyone else pick up on why they are in a rush to fix the EPA mandates? The sew officials said that there is no offical time line that the only time line is if they borrowed money from SRF to make repairs.
During the prsentation they talked about when the sewer's ssos are fixed this will bring in new revenue. What new revenue are they talking about? One of the officals said that there was a line that was ran from Corydon Pike and once the EPA mandates are fixed more development can occure in the area. The Corydon Pike Line was a reference to Highlander Point.
New Albany is rushing to fix the EPA problems so developers can turn HWY 150 into Dixi HWY.
Progressives should love that. More urban sprawl.
Can someone make a call to any senior citizen at Mark Elrod, Parkview, and Riverview Towers and ask them if they pay a sewer bill? If they don't, then have them make a call to Bob Lane and ask him if he pays sewer bills for those senior citizens. I know back in the 1990s they paid nothing and didn't think things had changed since then.
When Dr. Hibbard met with the Mayor on Wednesday, March 3, 2010 to explain the contents of the plan and his pending recommendation, did the Mayor talk to him about how that would affect the city sewers? Also, is that why the public hearing for the sewers was held on the same day as the school board meeting (divide and conquer)?
Did anyone else pick up on why they are in a rush to fix the EPA mandates? The sew officials said that there is no offical time line that the only time line is if they borrowed money from SRF to make repairs.
During the prsentation they talked about when the sewer's ssos are fixed this will bring in new revenue. What new revenue are they talking about? One of the officals said that there was a line that was ran from Corydon Pike and once the EPA mandates are fixed more development can occure in the area. The Corydon Pike Line was a reference to Highlander Point.
New Albany is rushing to fix the EPA problems so developers can turn HWY 150 into Dixi HWY.
Progressives should love that. More urban sprawl.
The EPA is not making New Albany do anything.
The current sewer board is only voluntarily complying to free up additional credits for Highlander Point Developers.
The developer that built the line receives royalties for every hookup and he has friends on the sewer board.
New Albany rate payers are subsidizing county urban sprawl developers.
The EPA is not making New Albany do anything.
The current sewer board is only voluntarily complying to free up additional credits for Highlander Point Developers.
The developer that built the line receives royalties for every hookup and he has friends on the sewer board.
New Albany rate payers are subsidizing county urban sprawl developers.
By law New Albany must comply with the CAP to lift the Ban.
The EPA has not asked New Albany to do anything about the SSOs currently.
The Sewer Board is voluteerily complying to open up Highlander Point development
Ruckman, who gets the royalties, who Greg Fifer represented, is one of the SSO's. Imagine that, and it's a relatively new line!
Fifer represented Theineman, Ruckman, and several others. Does anyone else pick up on the conflict of interest between his interests and the best interests of the rate payers?
My what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive.
I understand Carl Malysk told some of Council the TIF in the year end financials WAS NOT in the red (forget about the $5 million missing from the other TIFS). How can that be Carl? Did Kay make a mistake or did the Tribune have a misprint (excuses we have heard before)?
Was Benedetti's question about section 8 or the projects or the seniors' highrises? We have always been told the high rises do not pay sewers and are not part and parcel of the EPA mandates.
What was the question she asked?
Oh no! I hope it is not true England is planning on getting rid of EMC simply to bring his old employer in "the Hughes Group". Uggghhh. I am sure they would come in cheap and sock it to us the next year. I knew the City could not prepare the monthly book sent to the EPA; now it makes sense why he can live without EMC. Ugly and uglier.
I don't know what is more funny.
The Progressive demanding that the rate increase needs to happen and we need to stop urban sprawl.
When the bias sewer board gets more money from New Albany rate payers it will go to make developers weathier in the county.
Ha Ha
Closing City Schools to favor County Schools
Fixing city sewers to favor county development.
Way to go
And so it is with life in New Albany.
I understand typos. I make them all the time. But, someone is biasED. Not bias. If you have bias then you would be biasED. The biasED sewer board... This has happened way too often to be just a typo.
Sorry, it's a pet peeve of mine.
Does anybody here have even the slightest clue of what the hell they are talking about? Come on just drink a bunch of water, go out back and have a pissing contest and get it over with.
12:37 Iamhoosier is talking about how he wants others to properly use the word bias so that his nerves don't get rattled.
I am talking about all of you experts in everything. If all of you are so full of expertise then get elected and do the jobs better.
Lets see you get blood out of turnips. Lets see all of you always make the right decisions and never make anyone mad. You people are not even capable of holding rational debates yet you feel you are qualified to second guess everything everyone else does.
Sorry, we do not care about your pet peeves. Anything relevant to the topic at hand do you care to address?
12:59 you are sounding biased. (does this work for you Iamhoosier? trying to be sensitive to your pet peave)
typo...peeve
H***, anyone could do a better job than England and Carl, except Jack Messer.
so keep carl and england?
Gee 1:04 maybe you can all get matching tshirts that say no new pet peeves. Introduce yourself at meetings as the president of ACPAPP arm chair politicians against pet peeves.
Heck no, don't keep Carl, England and a bunch of others.
Get your own t-shirts.
Yeah, you are right. I shouldn't have brought that up.
I should spend more time attributing things to the wrong people and then not owning up to it. I should steal other people's writings and then post it as my own, thereby lying to the people who read it.
Thanks for opening my eyes. I apologize.
To 3/12 11:57
Diane Benedetti asked Kelly Welsh if the residents of the Housing Authority (projects) pay water and sewer bills. I did not hear anyone mention the older people in the high rises.
Housing Authority runs senior citizen at Mark Elrod, Parkview, and Riverview Towers.
How many times are you going to be ignorant and ignore what the man says and by hypocritical 1:47
Nobody cares about his pet peeves. They are his so he should deal with them himself. Real issues please.
Amen. Evidently he has nothing else to say except things about him. Off the wall...
I apologized for the pet peeve.
Why am I not surprised that you don't consider lying, stealing, and lack of personal responibility "real" issues?
I'm wondering if Barack Obama can be shoe-horned somehow in the conspiracy theory of the little people. He's way taller than them, and far more frightening.
Then it will be Hillary Clinton climbing out of the hatch in the glorious sewer submarine.
We have a bright and shiny new truck marked " CODE ENFORCEMENT" riding around New Albany or parked at the City County Bldg. We are paying a city employee for this position.
NEW ALBANY IS THE WORST TRASHY MESS THAT WE HAVE EVER SEEN.
WHERE IS THE BUILDING COMMISIONER ?
WHERE IS THIS CODE ENFORCEMENT EMPLOYEE ?
ELIMINATE THIS USELESS POSITION AND DIRECT THOSE FUNDS TO HELP KEEP DOWN OUR SEWER BILLS.
Why am I not surprised that you don't consider lying, stealing, and lack of personal responibility "real" issues?
Wake up...thats what a lot of folks have been trying to get you and others to understand as to why we are in the situation we are in.
That makes perfect sense. The city is trashy, so lets take away the funding for the code enforcement and use that on sewers.
If memory serves me correctly, the anonymous horde where the ones fighting tooth and nail against code enforcement, correct?
Also, on a side note, it was reported on here that a certain person wants to use edit and tif money to pay for sewage so we are not taxed any extra for the sewers. Aren't tif and edit funds derived from taxes?
How many Code Enforcement Positions are we paying ?
People are moving out of New Albany due to the trashy messes here.
Who wants to live in such a trashy, messy place and now, pay higher sewer bills ?
Let's dump all of that trash and mess
that we have to look at every day at the Mayor's front door.
Question ? How long do you think that he will let it lay there at his front door ?
SEJ is the only part of the city that has code enforcement.
2:27 AMEN...wish i could get my house sold. only problem everyone wants to move away not move in.
You say dump the trash on the mayors doorstep. And I ask you this, do we do that because his property is maintained? Or do we do that because he is the leader of the city?
Why not put the problem where the problem lies. That would be US. Thats right folks, we are to blame for the problem.
Everytime we drive passed a mess and just shake our heads and do nothing else, we are enabling it to continue.
Everytime we let a trashy scum sucking slumlord (disclaimer, all landlords are not slumlords) continue to poison families in a rancid property we are enabling the problem to continue.
Lastly, as far as SEJ the only place getting code enforcement, I do not live in SEJ, and guess what with three phone calls and a handful of pictures, I got a slumlord house condemned by the city, and it was those lazy do nothing people like John Gonder, Pat McLaughlin, and Carl who go the job done.
In addition to that, the city stayed on the slumlords butt until the property was cleaned up, repaired and finally put on the market. This was all recently as well.
We have to work WITH the authoroties and take ownership of the problems and accept this we have a responsibility to fairly, and patiently seeing a problem through to the end. Not come out of the gate cursing, blaming, backstabbing, and demanding action. Would you be more inclined to help a person who is willing to help, or would you be more willing to help a person who just yells and screams, curses and shakes their finger in your face?
The Centennial Committee has organized a city-wide clean up on April 24. All of the neighborhood associations have been asked to participate. Additionally the young people of Northside Christian Church have volunteered their services and they number over a thousand.
More information later.
This should help with our garbage situation for the time being. Now if we can just get these lazy people to pick up their own trash we'll be OK.
Lastly, as far as SEJ the only place getting code enforcement, I do not live in SEJ, and guess what with three phone calls and a handful of pictures, I got a slumlord house condemned by the city, and it was those lazy do nothing people like John Gonder, Pat McLaughlin, and Carl who go the job done.
Just when did all this occur. Was it prior to six months ago when there was more than one code enforcement officier? Currently there is only one code enforcement officiar and that is strictly for the SEJ neighborhood. If you have such luck getting things done, why don't you get off your but and get them folks to get the rest of the city clean? Tired of you constantly saying people only complain. We have tried and tried with no avail. Yes we have picked up trash, done neighborhod clean up, but without enforecement we are back in just a matter of days where we started. Enforcement with prosecution is what it is going to take, but that is never is done.
Christopher D. Would you be willing to become a liaison between the citizens (neighborhood groups) and the administration when it comes to code enforcement? You say you have no problems getting code enforcement from the city. Neighborhood groups would welcome someone like yourself who is able to achieve getting code enforcement done in their neighborhoods.
Yes it was recently (the dated photos can be found at the link below)
[ http://www.flickr.com/photos/csd619/3993298289/ ]
Also, I DID try and offer help, and I got slammed, ridiculed, made fun of and called a liar, know it all, BS artist and some more lovely things.
Granted the property is not perfect now, but it is vastly improved, and the same can be said about the slumlord lawyers house next door.
I do not claim to be an expert in this, I just go by the premise of you can catch more flies with honey than vinegar.
3:29
I would love to this late spring / summer. I have to admit it is not easy to get done, but it can be done. the big key is document, document, document. Second is follow up, follow up follow up.
Don't get nasty, and try to have reasonable expectations on timelines for improvements.
So is that a No you are not willing to be a liason or Yes you would?
Sorry, posted to soon.
Attention Neighborhood Leaders...Please take advantage of Chritopher D offer. Hopefully he will provide a means for you to contact him personally to work on getting this going by late Spring.
England a leader?
"allow me to recrap..."
That's a good property--it's A-Bag.
It's 3:59 on Friday. and I am overcome with aleticipation - give me the beer.
yea..give him a beer and hope the ISP picks him up tonight.
Does anyone know what would happen if they missed another bond payment? Maybe NA sewers would qualify as "too big to fail."
it's all scare tactics.. bondholders or epa will not take over...that’s just BS
more than likely if they missed a bond payment the bondholder would be forced into having to renegotiate the terms of the bonds to where na could afford it. neither the bond company or the epa have any desires to run the sewer. they would do anything to prevent from having to do that. isn't that really what has already started to happen with them offering to renegotiate? the sewer might do better for the citizens if they hold out for a better offer.
Cut out a couple packs of smokes or a few beers and lottery tickets, and viola, it magically appears.
Folks on fixed income must deal with itilities that need continue repair and expansion costs. What is the long term plan here? Or...is there one?
2:23 Sorry Charlie, there is no free ride, everyone must share the cost. We're comin after you.
Heres a question, Is taking Clere up on his offer such a bad idea? If it is, why is it such a bad idea?
I honestly do not think there is anyone who want increased fees, regardless of what side of the fence you are on.
I also do not think this problem belongs to any one administration in particular.
And I will ask it again, in regards to the suggestion of using edit and tif funds to subsidize the sewers, is that still not in effect a rate increase on taxpayers?
As far as the information regarding grants and foundations that could possibly help, that information has been dropped off at the clerks office (a stack of copies I made at home so there is plenty to share at no cost to the tax payers), a copy for the mayors office, as well.
There are some individuals who have expressed interest in getting a copy, and I apologize if that ahs not occurred yet. Physical copies are a little easier to muster right now as my flat bed scanner decided it was going to go on strike.
Chop the overpaid salaries and pensions and get rid of the unions. Us rate payers are complaining about the lack of administrative personnel and public salary cuts before sewer rate increase are passed on to the rate payers. When the electorate sees that overpaid salaries and benefits have been cut to the bone, a rate increase will be much easier to sell. (which no one is buying). Nobody wants to see sewer increase when the public "fat cats" are still feasting at the rate payers trough with glorious gusto.
I'm with Denhart let the developers pay their share.
I'll drink to that comment.
It has to come to some's attention, New Albany may be in worse shape than we imagined.
No Credit. The financial accountability as to where the State Revolving Loan Fund went, with proof, we may not be able to get help from the source.
We are not near compliance with the EPA and officials (anonymous source) are at the end of the rope. Assured rate payers to fight this sewer raise tooth and nail. Advised us to inform government all CDBG, TIF and EDIT will be necessary for the amount of "whatever" to come.
Interesting. This one person was upset and asked please mail to them the articles where Clark Dietz's representative stated where New Albany is with EPA mandate.
No information could be obtained from the source as litigation is or must be in serious negotations.
They did tell us we (citizens) NEED TO FIND THE MONEY (where it was spent, I mean).
An Update.
ISN'T THE PRES. OF THE SEWER BOARD A DEVELOPER?? NO CONFLICT THERE.
It's time for us rate payers to fight back unless you can afford a 74% icrease on your monthly sewer bill.
Wht is England wanting to spend $170,000 for another Street Sweeper? He just bought one when he came into office. Garner, bought one when he was in office.
Maybe he is a 'friend' of the company who sells the street sweepers.
"Wht is England wanting to spend $170,000 for another Street Sweeper? He just bought one when he came into office. Garner, bought one when he was in office."
I am not "attacking" you, but this is another situation where complaints were just made about how trashy NA is, and an effort made to help that situation and it is greated with complaints, followed by allegation that it is an inside deal.
Also if we are busted on credait and everything, why did Ed Clere assure us there is assistance by way of the SRLF, and so did U.S. Senator Richard Lugar?
Again, not being argumentative here, we just have two named individuals word vs the word of one "(anonymous source)"
once again shirley you show your true colors as an England loyalist, you dont think EDIT should be used for sewers, remember that voters, Baird is a mindless puppet for ENGLAND and she supports RAISING YOUR SEWR RATES
Or, maybe a second street sweeper might be necessary to keep the leaves/yard waste that isn't supposed to be swept to the gutter but always is swept to the gutter from getting into the storm sewers and causing flooding?
It must not be a very enjoyable life when there's a bogeyman behind every single tree. Jeez.
“And I will ask it again, in regards to the suggestion of using edit and tif funds to subsidize the sewers, is that still not in effect a rate increase on taxpayers?”
Taxpayers pay edit tax based on the amount of income they earn. This is a flat county income tax rate and the tax rate would not change if edit funds were used to subsidize the sewers. Taxpayers only pay more edit taxes when they earn more money. Using edit funds for sewers would simply be using income taxes that the taxpayers are already paying.
Tif funds are property taxes collected in the tif area that are in excess of the based property valuation at the time the tif area was established. The excess collected stays in the tif area to be used for that area. How this excess is used after required tif debt payments have been covered does not affect the overall property tax rate for the city. Deciding to use tif funds for sewer infrastructure projects in the tif area would not cause increase taxes for the taxpayer.
There has been much debate over whether or not these sources should be used. This response is not to debate the use of these funds but simply to make an attempt to answer the question whether using these funds would be in effect a rate increase on the taxpayers. Using these sources would be a reallocation of how tax money already collected is used without the taxpayer actually paying more money out in taxes. Yes, this could be viewed as a rate increase on the taxpayers since more of their taxes would be allocated for sewers. However, taxes are reallocated all the time for different purposes. One could view it as an increase to the taxpayer anytime more edit or tif money is allocated to a specific purpose. The confusion caused by stating it is a rate increase on the taxpayer is that it implies the taxpayers will actually have to pay out more money. That simply would not be the case should edit or tif funds be reallocated to offset some of the expenses of the sewer.
When the 'studies' of the sewers are done, brace yourself for the costs! Lots more work to come. Buy a bond, anyone?
STREET SWEEPER PURCHASE DISCUSSION.
Why would the city pay $170,000 for a new street sweeper to sweep dust and leaves out of the gutter ?
They are riding by the trashy mess in yards. Junk cars... broken furniture... old tires...broken toilets....old air conditioners ....
cans of trash...old windows and boards....auto parts...............
WELCOME TO NEW ALBANY.
WHY ARE WE PAYING THE CODE ENFORCEMENT OFFICER ? WITH A TRUCK AND CITY PAID CELL PHONE ?
WELCOME TO THE TRASH IN NEW ALBANY.
Why another Street sweeper?
Police can ride behind it and write more tickets to cars parking illegally in its way.
Oh, maybe it is to clean ALL the rest of the streets in New Albany that have NEVER seen a sweeper brush!
Clean the rest of the streets?
Boy is that wishful thinking!
Anyone have a map or list of the streets that DO get swept?
--small percentage of the city.
OK now i get it. unemployed druggies want to use edit so I a working taxpayer can keep their sewer rate down. Drug sellers don't pay edit do they.
To Anon. 3/13 11:15
If you check my postings,you will see that I was against using EDIT funds way before it was reported that England was against their use also.
I have a clue who you are and I want you to know that your attempts to discredit me are not working.
Everyone who knows me knows that I am nobody's parrot, puppet, or anything else. I speak only for myself.
And I am NOT for raising anyone's sewer rates.
Check out the Tribune. Daniel Suddeath has an excellent article explaining TIF's and how they work.
12:04pm
Ok, thanks fo rhte information. Well said, however, you know that if they use that for sewers, and then the other stuff they use it for comes up short, whats going to happen? Right, they will raise our income taxes. (they just did it in Clark County)
You simply can not take one tax, shift it to another area, and then not expect to pay additional somehow somewhere. Therefore, in my estimation, it is NOT saving the ratepayers any increase, we are paying more for sewers. Its just how we are payng for it is different.
If the no new taxes, no new fee crowd really want to do something that can not only keep us from getting higher fees, but also allow the city to make the infrastructure improvements we not only want but need, pressure your council representative to look into gratn funding that is readily available from both state and federal resources. Time is running out, if not all ready gone for federal TARP monies, but anything we could get HAS to come from an city official, or I would apply for the grants myself for the city.
STREET SWEEPERS
1:36pm
So should we have both trashy yards AND trashy streets and gutters?
If there are specific properties that you are concerned about, email me, maybe we can work together to get them done. I don't care who you are, or what your politics are, I can put aside political differences for the common good. ( Ihave done it before and willing to do it over and over)
On this subject one thing that woudl help greatly is if sweepers just didnt run April 1 to October 31.
Christopher,
Our trash problem is not in the streets and curbs,they're mattress, tires, wreck cars and etc. So please tell us how a street sweeper can clean up those properties.
Give us a break.
the 'little people,' you know, the people who call themselves 'taxpayers' and 'ratepayers' as if no one else is new albany pays taxes or pays for service, the little people sure do bitch a lot but not one ever comes up with a viable, overall plan for how to improve things. they think running a city is as simple as their minds.
Is the YMCA not backed up by EDIT? Yes, if your theory is right then whey did they use EDIT and back it up with my property taxes.
Boy oh boy! The author of Voice of the People blog sure is an idiot and knows it. Why else would she lie about being a college professor? She has to lie to make people believe that her mud slinging somehow is worth reading.
The YMCA is paying for itself. There's been no default and revenues are exceeding expectations. No property taxes have been tapped to pay for any default at the YMCA because there's been none.
So if EDIT is used to pave streets downtown how does that benefit me. It only benefits the business.
Besides this posting 12:04 is strickly Randy Smith's position.
Busted!!!!!!!!!
...not been one.
There are 37,000 people in New Albany. Have you quizzed each one to know that no one but Randy Smith has a certain position?
You are a very busy person. I hope the census hires you!
!!!!!!NEWSFLASH!!!!!!
This just in!
Businesses employ little people!
When little people have jobs, they can pay rent to slumlords.
When little people have jobs, they buy stuff from other businesses that employ other little people.
!!!!!!BIGGEST NEWSFLASH OF THE DAY!!!!!
WE'RE ALL IN THIS TOGETHER!!!!
Dear Steve Price, you wondered where your stimulus is. You get it everY month in the form of rent checks you otherwise would not receive have all the banks and business failed last year. I wish you weren't too damn dumb to understand that.
4:06 you must have not attended the public hearing. Mrs. Denhart had a great viable plan. I SUPPORT it, and I wonder why the TIF article is in the paper today?
Just because a group of citizens figure how to fix the problem and had a great idea, but our mayor wants to use it as his personal slush fund.
From my understanding they also have the Sanitation problem solved where it saves everyone.
Gooo...Citizens For Accountability.
you'd think more unemployed drug dealers would want a LOIT since they don't pay taxes on their pot selling incomes.
"mayor's slush fund"
shows how ignorant you are. the mayor does not approve TIF spending. that must go before one or various commissions.
ignorant *sshole.
4:15 most of this was put on Smith's blog. Duh!
Shirley
I would like to ask why you ARE taking the position to not use EDIT?
Just making the statement you are against using EDIT but why not?
No pot smokers don't pay, and neither does owners who sell beer to underaged drinkers.
Dear 4:24 ignorant a**hole,
Attack all you want but when your buddies get voted out of office for kissing the mayor's butt (and your lips are all over his butt.) We'll see whose laughing then!
"Christopher,
Our trash problem is not in the streets and curbs,they're mattress, tires, wreck cars and etc. So please tell us how a street sweeper can clean up those properties.
Give us a break."
Give you a break? I think I recall mentioning a distinction between the two. Unless you just read a little and posted a reactionary statement.
Of course you must have ignored the part where I said if there are particular properties you are concerned with to email me and I would help get it taken care of the best I can.
Why must you be so hateful all the time?
As the TIF monies are already collected and sitting in Carl's little fiefdom I say use CDBG funds, EDIT monies, TIF monies, RIVERBOAT monies, and the Rainyday monies and forward them to the Sewers.
Legally, the Sewer Board HAD TO BE PAID BACK WITHIN 1 year and yet never happened.
Knowing how far in the red we are as a City (just look at those financials) the City must need the EDIT to pay salaries (and yes they can use EDIT to pay their salaries).
Yes, I know the City is in trouble with the EPA and Federal sources told "us" Christmas misled the whole dang audience.
We can't borrow because we have no credit.
I also feel the State is getting ready to have a change of heart about SRF loans because the MONEY is missing.
The information from Lugar was very informative; it will not help us secure any funding because of the Books. Thank you for trying though.
Too much overhead, too many inflated salaries, too many falsehoods and now I hear the City has been taxing retirement and pensions for the past 9 years and Attorneys are getting involved alongwith the IRS. Our nightmares never end.
We have been waiting on the sympathy card to be played by Kay and it has now come about.
We are all sorry about her loss but if it is affecting her job soo much, hire a CPA (one Doug England does not know).
Even Ron Carroll is upset with England, calling him a liar. Where and when and how will this all end (which has been going on for umpteen years)?
I don't have the answers, only a million questions -- WHAT HAPPENED TO OUR MONEY? I have the right to know.
4:58 just proved it knows nothing about finance.
and neither does owners who sell beer to underaged drinkers.
leave hitching post out of this!
If you look at the IC code they actually use sewer improvement as a example of how to use tif monies--iac 8- 30 13.2
Of course, given the source, you won't be surprised to know that Title 8 only has 24 Articles...but maybe someday there will be 30.
TIFs for sewer improvements is perfectly fine. But that does not pay for operational expenses.
Compound the percentage rates we are getting ready to get hit with and I think you will it averages out to 73%.
Where's the money Doug?
I don't even understand how you can make payroll when you are five million dollars in the red AT THE BEGINNING OF THE YEAR! Is that what they need the EDIT monies for?
Act like and care like there is a national recession in effect; we are no different than A LOT of towns, cities, states, etc... WE ARE BROKE.
Why can not Mayor England give some concessions, ANY concessions to the citizens of New Albany? Cars, Cell phones, Health insurance for 3 council members, salary cuts (DEEP salary cuts), unnecessary personnel layoffs - why not do something for the people to show you even care.
I can't get over the statement if you can't afford this increase, disconnect your cable or move. Unbelievable, unacceptable and understanding the meaning of your words.
I feel better with that off my chest!
Did you do it Doug?
off topic a bit but:
"INDIANAPOLIS -- The General Assembly on Saturday passed compromise bills on some major issues and adjourned the 2010 legislative session.
The compromises approved early Saturday included a one-year delay on unemployment insurance tax increases, some tax breaks and incentives designed to create jobs and allowing schools to tap into some property tax accounts to help offset a portion of $300 million in cuts for general operating expenses." ~ channel 6 news, Indy
But the school board had to move as fast as they did to shut down our schools...
to 3/13 4:27
The reason that I don't want to use EDIT funds to lower the sewer rates is this: The working people pay EDIT. The businesses do not. So I don't want to pay to keep Kroger, Target, Walmart, Kmart, Meijer, Koles, etc. from having to pay a highter sewer rate.
We working people are taxed enough as it is.
That is the statement I was trying to make at the meeting last Thursday.
If the real concern with using edit contributions is that those who do not pay edit and are the largest users types (commercial, retail, and industrial business) are benefiting from the contributions, then why not target the rate increase primarily towards these largest user types? These users types outside the City already pay 50% higher sewer rates to the City so why not charge those users types in the City a 50% higher rate as well. This should decrease the amount of rate increase necessary for the residential customers and ensure that any edit contributions used are benefiting primarily those that are actually paying the income tax. If the percent rate increase for those placing the heaviest burden on the system is the same as residential customers who place the least amount of burden on the system, then the residential customers still ends up propping up the cash flow and profit of these businesses by keeping their rates lower.
Operational expenses are being met. The utility has always been in the black for the past 10 years if you take out special projects. THE LAST increase provided $500,000 per year for maintainence.
So raise the rates for commercial and industrial users. NO DISCOUNTS for HIGH END SEWER users. Raise the rates for those needing high treatment.
I agree 1:51. Let's get a level playing field between high end users and Developers.
Just read the latest FOS post.
I'm impressed that "Erika" can put her blatant racism and hate speech into prose.
Has anybody held the Contracted Engineers feet to the fire, as to WHY all their previous plans have NOT worked? Should they be made to pay for the damages due to sewage backups into homes?
They definitely should be! I would assume this is why EPA wanted the Engineer's statements published in the paper. His statements were incorrect, to say the least.
Add Jack Messer to that so called racism list--why don't you.
FOS is NOT a racist blog. Get over yourself. Take a chill pill.
I support no increase of sewer fees since they are sitting with my money, they should spend it in sewers instead of England's feel good projects.
FOS is a racist blog. Period.
everyone is a little bit racist
FOS may or may not be racist, I don't read it enough to pass judgment. However, the post that 3:22 is referring to is without a doubt one of the most sickening displays of ignorance I've seen in a long, long time. It was almost beautiful in its sheer stupidity. How are people that simple-minded able to function as adults?
Eric, if that post if one of the "most sickening displays of ignorance" you've read in a long, long time, then I can tell you do not read FOS often. Good for you! It will drive you insane trying to make sense of something so incomprehensible.
everyone is a little bit racist
Not everyone writes a poem stating that when you see someone a middle eastern or south asian person, you assume he is a terrorist and you're just waiting to take joy in beating the sh*t out of him.
do you know how many arabs live in the US? it's in the millions. and guess what? have we had millions of terrorist attacks in the US? NO!!
that's because 99.99999% of arabs in the US have never committed a terrorist act. we've had as many terrorist attacks on US soil from white, right-wing nuts as we have from arabs or muslims (remember oklahoma city bombing?). where's FOS's post denouncing white, right-wing nuts who talk about political assignations and blowing up buildings?
FOS just shows yet again how out of the loop she is, how hateful she is, how clueless she is and how ignorant she is.
racist ignorant bigot!
VOP sings and is into Thai politics too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBWYPvh71yY
OH THIS IS GREAT, MAYBE TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE. SOMEONE DOUBLE CHECK THIS.
DID V.O.P. QUOTE (AS NON-PARODY) A PARODY SONG BY A GUY WHO DRESSES UP AS HITLER WHEN SINGING?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOBQtN9axHk
THIS IS FUNNY STUFF!!!!!
http://www.franksanazi.com/
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Can't make this up!
Roger, did you ever wonder if "little people" understood parody/satire?
I think the answer is "no!" They take it as FACT and quote it!
Maybe this will teach the fake professor to fact check next time she cut-and-paste from the internet.
How About if someone asks the Native Americans if they feel any racial profiling going on is to harsh
Having decinded to see what all the hub bub was about regarding the racist poem over at freedom to screech, I do not think it shows as much racism as it does to show ignorance.
If SHE wants to publicly advertise her intolerance, biggotry and ignorance in such a public manner, then by all means do so, after all it is her right. But it also gives all of us the ability to see what she really is underneath it all. (after all we all know there is no such person as eric the esteemed college professor)
Erika cannot distinguish the different between
A. speech that's profoundly ignorant, and therefore worthy of being posted on her website, and
B. a comedy piece done by a guy who dresses up like Hitler and goes by the name Frank SaNazi, singing "Strangers on my Flight" to the tune of "Strangers in the Night."
This only could be funnier if the Frank SaNazi guy was actually funny in the YouTube video.
agreed. richard cheese is sooo much more funny.
The "distraction machine" is hard at work. Such a shame none can stick to the article at hand or concentrate on upcoming legislation.
When all else fails, distract from the issue is correct anonymous. Gosh, why aren't these anonymous people attacking Jack Messer?
Good grief, we are about to get hit with the biggest sewer rate ever.
All the renters will move out and their will be even more empty places.
They want to spend $170,000 for a street sweeper when the trash are piled in the yards and all you want to do is trash another blog.
Amen to that.
Over @ the Mayor's blog:
Christopher D. wrote: Why so many are comfortable with robbing Peter to pay Paul is beyond my comprehension.
What has England been doing for over two years?
Robbing Peter to pay Paul and now everyone is Petered out.
We can't afford this unstable administration.
I guess it's easier when you're spending other peoples money and make the salary they do.
perhaps no one is attacking messer because he said something out of line, whilst the good professor is inciting race based violence, a significant difference lies between the two. if you think renters are going to engage in a masse exodus over a twenty or thirty dollar a month increase maybe you need to question the motive of the property owners who will pass that on to them rather than accept a slight decrease in profit.
4:26 amen to that!
i think professor erik(a) just wrote that she can be racist is messer is racist too.
two wrongs make a right is typical "little people" position.
I don't see ANYONE standing up for what Messer said so I don't understand why the Messer analogy is brought in.
I bet Messer really, really wishes he could take those words back.
Professor Erika, on the other hand, seems to think that violence against random people in turbans is funny.
Over @ the Mayor's blog:
That's funny, ha ha. I've never once heard of the Mayor or Carl even reading Roger's blog.
But there sure are a lot of New Albany citizens, voters, taxpayers and ratepayers, plus a veteran or two, chiming in on local issues.
I wish New Albany citizens, voters and taxpayers could chime in at Professor Erika's or Coffey's blog.
Damn, I just wish Steve Price could get email.
I feel awkward! Here I am getting dragged into this one again.
But in the often uttered words here, I am entitled to my own opinion, and the statement regarding Peter and Paul is just that, my opinion.
I personally feel that the ideology of using edit and/or tif to pay for sewage rate increases is robbing one to pay the other.
Also it truly vexes me as to how so many people can be comfortable with that scenario.
But EDIT ia our money. So you think we should use the EDIT & TIF money on businesses downtown and two way streets?
I don't think sooo!
I'm confused. I've never heard of any edit or tif money being used for downtown businesses. And who paid for the streets to go from 2-way to 1-way? What's so wonderful about 1-way streets?
How does a downtown business get money from the city? Is there an application?
You don't think so? Well that's nice, Sweetie.
But I hate to break it to you, we had this thing called an election and your side lost.
I know Prof. Erika is anti-Democracy but the rest of us aren't. Better luck next time, Sweetie.
not one 1-way street has been changed to 2-way.
they're putting in new street lights but that was federal stimulus money, not edit or tif.
i'm confused too.
here we go again. avoiding the real issue.
"Sewers"
http://www.animatronics.org/strangers/strangers.htm
You are a total whack job.
A question for Prof. Erik:
Is this parody or an accurate statement of your beliefs?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvlqjFp5CfA
here we go again. avoiding the real issue.
When the smoke filled room crowd who are discussing "the real issue" are so wacko they cannot distinguish parody from truth, you have to question everything they say.
Thanks for the put down to everyone. Intelligent for you, LOL.
Don't you think someone needs to find out WHY the Bonds were not paid in the first place? And, where did the money go?
Why is everyone interested in throwing so much money after bad while citizens can not get the hard answers?
How do you think the City is making payroll re the City starting the year five million in the hole?
Why are you not demanding sanitation and sewer funds be separated?
I wonder WHY?
why do you say the city is $5 mil in the hole?
Don't you think someone needs to find out WHY the Bonds were not paid in the first place? And, where did the money go?
What bonds are unpaid? The city has unmatured, outstanding bonds. None are delinquent.
discussing sewers & FOS is the same subject. Both pipe crap around.
The little people can not afford sewage rate increases.
The little people can not afford any new fees or taxes.
The little people can not afford to pay their rent when the slum lords raise their rents.
The little people can not afford to pay for fancy sidewalks in front of certain businesses.
The little people can not speak for themselves; we have to speak for them.
The little people can not afford their medication.
The little people can not find jobs.
The little people are suffering.
How do we the people deal with that? After we buy our new cars, tour Europe, buy new big screen HDTV’s, after we spend money on t-shirts and yard signs, after we state we have spent hundreds and thousands of dollars on researching and documenting the criminal activities of the mayor and his good old boy network, we show our support to the little people by taking a road trip to Washington D.C. to protest healthcare reforms that will benefit the little people.
WHAT A BUNCH OF DUPLICITOUS SANCTAMONIOUS GRANDILOQUENT SELF SERVING IGNORAMUSES.
11:29
Rest assurred they probably carrying protest signs saying "Keep government out of my medicare"
Let's not resort and participate in the childish name calling, downgrading remarks games.
The Sewers have JUNK bonds, not the State Revolving Loan Fund Bonds, the OTHER BONDS. The insurance company on the Bonds went belly up and they are now JUNK status. Those are the bonds I am referring to their status.
Why do I say the City is $5 million in the red? The year end financial showed we ended 09 $4 million in the red and started with 2010 $5 million in the red.
This is NOT FOS's blog and if YOU care so much what they print, send them an e-mail or start your own blog or use the City blog. Shirley is trying to keep to the subject at hand, though I may be in disagreement with her stand on using EDIT money, I still respect HER SPACE.
medicare is government your stupid
This is NOT FOS's blog and if YOU care so much what they print, send them an e-mail or start your own blog or use the City blog.
What's Erik's email?
"Junk" rating does not mean we cannot pay the bonds. It does not increase the price we're paying for those bonds either. It only means that if someone else wants to buy them, they will pay less money.
To all who do not understand the rate increase and how it ends up being more than 70%, here goes:
An initial 36% increase now, then in 2012 a 19% increase, then little 3% increases each year 2013 through 2016. Well, those percentages only add up to 67% so they MUST be doing us a favor, ‘eh? Not so fast. Let’s look at the math and consider this thing called compounded interest.
For simplicity, let’s say they were going to split the increase in half and raise the rate 35% this year, then another 35% in 2012to make the total 70% increase. Thanks to compounded interest, this split will actually create an 82% increase, or add $49.35 (instead of $42) to what is now a $60 bill, for a $109.25 sewer bill (instead of $102 w/one 70% increase). This means they would actually be getting an additional $7.25 per sewer bill than they would have if they had just done the 70% increase all at once. That’s a lot of extra money.
This happens because once you raise the initial $60 by 35%, adding $21 for a new bill amount of $81 dollars, the next 35% is now assessed to an $81 bill instead of the original $60 bill. So this second 35% increase is now compounded by the higher $81 amount it’s assessed to. The second increase is $28.35 instead of another $21 because 35% of $81 is more than 35% of $60. Get it?
And we think they are doing us a favor? On and on it goes.
In other words, an 83% rate hike, right?
11:41, If FOS showed a photo the sky was blue, you and others would claim it was cloudy. You of all people don't have a right to knock them for standing up for what they believe in. So get over your selves and be proud they are fighting for the little guy. We don't see anyone on Bank Street, Spring Street, Market Street, Pearl Street or even downtown fighting for us. Shame on all of you. You need serious therphy.
11:29, you are delusional. Healthcare will bankrupt our country. China now owns the USA. So what, they works hard, plays by the rules and does more for New Albany than any of you. For god's sake if you buy Obamacare you are as dumb as the ones who elected him.
How'a that change, got a job yet?
4:42 & 4:51 hopefully in the bill they can get some education incentives for you.
"11:41, If FOS showed a photo the sky was blue, you and others would claim it was cloudy. You of all people don't have a right to knock them for standing up for what they believe in. So get over your selves and be proud they are fighting for the little guy. We don't see anyone on Bank Street, Spring Street, Market Street, Pearl Street or even downtown fighting for us. Shame on all of you. You need serious therphy."
Thank you for your input, but honestly I would be more inclined to critique their choice of photography an empty blue sky, but technically speaking there are at some level of the atmosphere always some form of clouds, so that would not be a mistruth.
As far as speaking directly to your attempted slam of me, if I may be so bold as to use a couple of the anonymous hordes words here in regards to my statement about the medicare sign: are you unable to "distinguish parody from truth"?
Have a wonderful evening, as I burst with pride over thinking of them representing New Albany up in the DC.
Chris...you must be bored if all your doing is responding and trying to get the last word in. Rise above it and let it be. Let us just lead by example.
Strangers on my flight,
turbans they're packin',
Wonderin' if they might;
plan a hijacking.
They could pull a stunt,
before the flight is through.
Something's on their minds,
I saw them mutter.
What that in their hands?
Looks like box cutters.
I'm gonna kick some ass;
if they make a move.
A giant game.
Sad, isn't it?
Councilman Messer will not be attending Thursday nights council meeting. Call your council member and tell them "we will vote them out" if they support a rate increase.
The time is now - folks. Get ready to march on City Hall.
The only Armageddon here is the progressives and England will not get what they want. Boy, they sure know how to throw council members under the bus. Seems like to me Gonder isn't buying England, Christmas, Fifer's lies and threats.
England is so done in this town.
Sad, just plain sad.
Much like bathroom graffiti, the Anonymous label appears to be a brain-bypass state where the embittered and the illiterate enjoy some conjugal meditation. Be sure to wash your hands afterwards, okay?
if drake is such a hot shot at the welfare doctors office how come hes not in the paper with the stories in there his job is probably more of his BS probably a janitor
anonymous, get some balls.
Inspired by Erika:
http://cityofnewalbany.blogspot.com/2010/03/but-first-number-wee-ones-in-night.html
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