Due to other obligations I did not attend the special city council meeting last night (4/27). But I did read Daniel Suddeath's columns regarding the sewer loan and the hiring of Mr. Lorch as a full time council attorney and grant writer.
I agree with both decisions.
Please add your comments which agree or disagree.
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221 comments:
1 – 200 of 221 Newer› Newest»I respectfully ask that everyone stay of topic this time. Everyone knows how everyone feels about certain members of our community, both elected officials and others. So please drop the name calling and accusations.
thanks
Shirley
This citizen/taxpayer/ratepayer/voter agrees with both decisions also.
Directions for City Governance in this dirty little river town:
Tax, Spend, Borrow, Steal, Repeat.
Heh, Heh.
Shirley, not that I have anything against hiring a full time council attorney but I have to ask how they justify the position with the City being 12 million in the hole for the General Fund.
The City can't keep spending money they don't have. This issue is Council's problem and I do not think they are even aware (most of them). Some are but can't get theothers to address the issue. When it is their job it infuriates me, literally. I swear I don't know how they can sleep at night. How do you get to be on Council and not be aware what the year end financials state (show)?
Mary Goldberg always had a sense for the numbers. What does he say on this issue seeing he is planning on running next year? There is a reason for the no votes on council and this would be the reason whether others understand or not.
You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. When McLaughlin passed the year end report out to Council a couple of weeks ago most asked "what's this". If I hadn't been there I wouldn't have believed it. But, maybe they were distracted by England though I don't believe this is the case.
Some taxpayers anxiously await the publishing of the year end financials so we can see how the money was spent. In all the years I have never seen anything like this year end. Downright scary if you ask me, but who's asking right?
I feel like it's blah, blah, blah. Yet, how are they making payroll? How are they making new hires? How are we even existing? I'll be quiet now. Though, I will ask if you are aware. Thanks so much.
I have to ask how they justify the position with the City being 12 million in the hole for the General Fund.
They justify it because the general fund is not $12 million in the hole.
Yes it is.
Prove it.
Yesterday the general fund was just $5.3 million in the hole. Someone must have had a bad night at the boat. (or maybe someone can't read a financial report).
You are right. I misquoted. Sorry about my mistake.
The General Fund is only in the hole $5.3 million and the other numbers equal the $12 million. I apologize sincerely.
The other numbers are the TIF in the Industrial Park $1.1 million; Sanitation $5.7 million; Parks & Recreation $330 Thousand...
My questions still stand if anyone can answer.
Apologies all around. Thank you.
13 days and still no arrest
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Again, the money a full time attorney can save in preventing or winning a lawsuit can pay for their annual salary that otherwise would have went out the door as a "settlement".
Couple this with the capabilities of even a marginally qualified professional grant writer, and in the first grant their salary, as well as the attorney's salary can be made.
As far as grants are concerned, they are out their by the truck loads, Federal, State, private, community foundations, corporate foundations, endowments, and so on.
Give it some time, and the approval of these two positions could well see that red ink start to fade...
I can see the advantage somewhat, but can't see it helping the General Fund or Sanitation. Maybe the Parks Department but usually aren't grants given for a specific cause and not to be used for general purposes?
I'm not against a fulltime attorney but have to wonder ghow council can authorize positions they (now present day) don't have the money for.
Many of us here are deeply concerned about England's mismanagement and wasteful spending. Based on the year end reports this approach strikes me as a dishonest shell game. I wish to point out that the $7.4 is of special concern to ordinary ratepayers because why a rate increase and then go into debt for twenty more years.
If liens and other facets of reports are needless expenses that if would have been done correctly would entirely negate any "need" for any type of an increase.
Borrowing of $7.4 million and the outrage of ratepayers should have been a very clear signal to the council and Mayor England to stop wasting ratepayer money on an unnecessary and unbelieveably expensive loan. While the mayor got his rate increase, and loan there is no way he can justify all the needless and wasteful spending that has occurred and apparently will continue until we get him removed from office.
How it could possibly make sense to borrow $7.4 million and two republicans support this is beside me.
The current account balance of the sewer fund and now stormwater fund should be shown to rate payers and council. The council should make sure and investigate the use of the previous funds in order to make sure monies have not been divert to other uses.
The council should compel the controller and mayor to make a complete public accounting of how much money they have wasted, borrowed and loaned to other departments.
The mayor continues to make bad decisions like this one and a full time attorney and waste ratepayer money as in this case.
These may seem like mundane questions about loans, sewer rate increases, stormwater fees, full time attorney, and next will be $1.8 million for police and fire employees. Yet there is underlying questions and a profound lack of confidence in England, Gonder, Messer, Zurschmiede, Bendetti, Caesar and a sense they to add too mismangement and wasteful spending all in the name of politics and political favors.
Legal Beagle
typo: I also left out EDIT Funds.
LB
I am sure if one were to dig deep enough, there are funding possibilities for every aspect of civil operation of a city.
If not for the operations expenditures, more than likely there are funding sources for equipment. (I.E. trash trucks, law enforcement / Fire fighting tools, street department equipment, etc)
This definately is not the pot of gold at the end of a rainbow where all of our money wants and woes will magically vanish, but every single red cent that can be brought in is one less red cent that has to come from somewhere else ( like taxes )
The old saying holds true, one has to spend money to make money, and we must move towards a balanced budget, and that is not a path that is a day hike, it is a long haul, and we will have to tolerate certain risks to do it.
Chris, who wrote grants before new attorney Lorch got the job? Wasn't it our $150,000 city attorney or the $93,000 illegal deputy mayor, or John Rosenbarger and/or Greg Fifer at $2,500 for 10 hours work and then being paid $150.00 hr, plus his bond writing commission.
As far as winning a lawsuit and paying for himself, the last lawsuit was won by the city attorney whom we pay his salary and he represented the billing department defends against the council. That's not a good defense or justification for Lorch and his full time contract.
Whose and what part does England get?
I totally disagree with: the old saying holds true, one has to spend money to make money.
If you have no money, how can you spend it to be made? By borrowing money? You can not borrow your way out of debt.Our city cannot continue at this pace of spending.
My best Example: the current financial mess our country is in.
I cannot believe the council did this to themselves. Understand, there are two branches of government involved here and the grant writer will work for the mayor not the council! This is the first time there will be a council attorney who also works for the mayor. Stan Robison or jerry Ulrich would have never discussed council business with the mayor unless directed to or unless permission was granted because they took their orders from the council. Now you have an attorney who will also be working for the mayor. If I were a council member I would either exclude him from executive sessions, or just invite doug and carl to come to the meeting. I cannot believe they did this to themselves, I really believe we have a number fo council members with a learning disability. They cannot evern watch out for themselves.
AS far as the sewer issue was concerned. Gonder and wisman showed their true colors and followed the law but were purposely deceptive about the agenda. And, most of the council members had no idea about the numbers in the loan----even fifer admitted he did not bring the information. It was embarassing. Well at least we know it will be a 75 million dollar bill to pay back our loans. That would run the city for over five years.
"If you have no money, how can you spend it to be made? By borrowing money? You can not borrow your way out of debt."
Oh contraire mon fraire. Banks do it all the time, they take your money you basically loan to them via your savings or checking, and invest that, the same goes for investment firms. They borrow your money to make you a profit as well as them.
The turning point has to begin somewhere, and until such a time that we find a major gold vein under the hills, or strike oil in aprk (no not the umpteen thousands of gallons leaking into the parking losts :) ) If it can begin with grants to free up monies for equipment and or training, for paving roads, improving our parks, perhaps paying for that water park or the repair of Camille Wright, the previous two could generate money.
And yes we had people who were writing for an occassional grant, but there is a significant difference between a person who can write for a grant now and again, and a person who is mostly dedicated to the task.
And I am sure that I would be willing to help out when I can, or send grant info at every opportunity, and I would be willing to bet that others I know would be willing to do so as well.
As far as one city department suing another city department, well thats just plain stupid any way you slice it.
Good evening
The turning point Chris would be for the Council to understand the financial situation and stop the spending by the Administration.
We can not borrow ourselves out of debt. The cuts have to come from somewhere and I suggest they start at the top and act like we do have financial difficulties. Big ones. What is next, a garbage rate hike? Another stormwater hike which we just paid to pay salaries?
This place is a mess.
14 days and still no arrest
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I have never seen it work because "solutions" only address the symptoms! You must address the root cause of what created the debt in the first place. It is necessary to change spending behavior and money management behavior. England is not about to do this by know means.
You personally nor can the city borrow it's self out of debt.
Legal Beagle
Christopher D said...
"I am sure if one were to dig deep enough, there are funding possibilities for every aspect of civil operation of a city."
"The old saying holds true, one has to spend money to make money"
i am sure if one were to dig deep enough, there are saving possibilities for every aspect of civil operations of this city. if your old belief held true with spending money to make money then the city and sewers should be rolling in dough by now.
how about a little more forward progressive thinking that comes with proven results.. you have to spend and SAVE money WISELY in order to make money.
Good points made on this issue. See what happens when you play nice.
cut wasteful animal control. i like that untouched, wild west image. packs of wild dogs terrorizing spring street sounds exciting! watch out 1117 ESSNA!
cut wasteful code enforcement! i mean sure, last week my slumlord neighbor mowed his grass for the first time all year but it's just going to grow back.
cut wasteful grant writers. who needs grant money anyhow?
cut wasteful streets department. new albany had dirt roads for its first hundred years. if it was good enough then, it's good enough now!
cut wasteful police. i have guns.
cut wasteful zoning. i am okay if a tire shredding shop moves in next door if it saves me two bucks in taxes.
cut wasteful redevelopment. i have a job already. who cares if another citizens gets jobs?
cut wasteful fire protection. just ask everyone to buy a bucket and a hose. if someone doesn't have a bucket and fire starts at their house and ends up burning down the whole neighborhood, well then just shot 'em.
cut wasteful lawyers. who needs to know the stinking law? we are the law!
cut wasteful paving of sidewalks in front of brewhouses. if we didn't give roger's partners' landlord's building 20 feet of new sidewalk, we wouldn't be $5,300,000.00 in the hole, we'd be $5,299,999.99 in the hole. don't do it at wick's either, oh wait no, i like wick's.
every penny counts! let the next generation worry if we are pound foolish.
We're just waiting for the other shoe to drop.
G-O-O-D- M-O-R-N-I-N-G "progressives", glad to see you joined out little conversation.
It is always easy to deflect and blame others 9:57.
We're just waiting for the other shoe to drop.
I'm still waiting to:
- see the secret tapes
- meet the secret professor
- congratulate FOS's six secret marathon runners and
- see the secret evidence.
9:57 is that the best you can do? the continued belief that there are not inefficiencies and waste is preventing us from moving forward. nobody is saying to cut services as you suggest, but why not make things as efficient as possible. lets move forward as much as we can and as quickly as we can and tackle all aspects, which does included how and for what money is being spent on. Call it pound foolish to evaluate spending, but it is ton foolish not to.
Statement directed to anonymous 9:57 AM.
This is the FIRST time I have EVER responded to ANY blog. You have confirmed what I have always known. It is useless trying to engage someone like yourself in actual intelligent debate by blogging.
And a couple more things- "It amazes me that people read what they want to read" are you blind or just a clueless hypocrite.
Our city is in trouble.
Lets just suffice to say-the above-clearly indicates, it is futile to expect a fair and accurate debate with you.You are clueless-deluted tool!
the continued belief that there are not inefficiencies and waste is preventing us from moving forward. nobody is saying to cut services as you suggest
actually A LOT of posts on this blog have said cut services.
if you don't want to cut services, then we're in agreement.
there!
It is useless trying to engage someone like yourself in actual intelligent debate.....You are clueless-deluted tool!
I like your style of "intelligent debate."
I agree with both decisions.
please drop the name calling and accusations.
wasnt a condition of the state lending na money was that it had to cut 1,000,0000 in expenses from the sewers? where is the plan on how this will be done. surely the council didnt agree to the loan without first seeing plan.
Thanks, for bring that to our attention.
What plan? England would not commit to cutting $1,000,000. Remember some council members question him about it in the Tribune article.
Okay, here is a few questions to pose. Fiscal difficulties aside for a moment...
How does our administrators salary stack up against similar sized cities? Is it on par, more or less than other cities of our size.
How many other similar sized cities offer health insurance to part time people? And what is the cost impact of continuing to pay for such insurance for council members?
Is there a reason why we pay our council the amount we do? (being an elected official whose job is 40 hours or so is one thing, but the limited time a council person spends on the job, bears looknig into) (disclaimer- I do not know how many average actual work hours council members put in per month, but I do. Also are they salaried or are they hourly? and what would be the benefits of either?)
but here is what I do no as far as expenditures:
* we need animal control (that is joint with county though is it not?)
* we need code enforcement (and we need enforcement and collection of fines)
* we need a fully staffed and equiped street department)
* we need the various boards and commissions as directed by law
However, again, are we required to PAY members of boards and commissions, if the pay was token at best, would we have people who care more about the city at large than a little jingle in their pockects? (no not saying there is anyone in particular I am speaking of, Just throwing stuff out there to think about.)
What are the thoughts on any other REALISTIC changes that could be made to cut costs but yet still be efficient and effective?
Smaller government is better government.
Let's have a look at the overall 2010 budget. Wow! That's right the budget hasn't been approved. But, the dough keeps roll out doesn't it?
Where else is the money going?
Hey Chris,
If they're to lazy to bring down 1,125 sewer liens why would they bother pushing or collecting any fines?
Treasure told me it took the billing department two years to acculmate that many liens and they even got a $10,000 raise for not doing their job.
So rate payers are suppose to be happy we got a rate increase and they get raises.
England's Ponzi scheme is working well for many downtown...isn't it?
a.) How many attorney's we got now?
b.) How many studies have been made since England has been in office?
c.) How much have we paid for them?
d.) How much will the bond commission be?
Don't you see a pattern here? The last four mayors have refinanced all the bonds (during each of their term) for pocket money.
The mayor is not going to let them send the budget to the state for approval until he gets the 12 million for the parking garage(it would look bad even if does not come from the general fund) and everything else he wants------then the state can lower our budget and our LD council will have to make up the difference again.
We need a lot of things Chris, but our city cannot afford it unless they make cuts.
Hell would freeze over first.
Give me your family check book Chris, and I will show you how to spend your money and pay my bills.
a.) How many attorney's we got now?
city attorney
council attorney
sewer attorney
sewer bond attorney
park attorney
planning attorney
redevelopment attorney
redevelopment bond attorney
animal shelter attorney
adult bookstore attorney
Whew...
FOS slop from January 3, 2010.
We say: "Drill Baby Drill!"
So, how's that "Hope & Change" working for you?
Posted by One voice at 1:42:00 AM
I'll take my Gulf Coast without the oil, please.
Since the Mayor used some of the EDIT money for this full time "new position" (council attorney) he so desperately wanted, why couldn't/didn't use that money to lower our sewer rate?
oops, he use.
How does a group of elected officials justify and rationalize their corruption and greed in a city of less than 36,000? This is the worse council we've ever had and it's like they are saying to us: "It's ok if I do this or vote for that because."...(fill in here). Stop rationalizing, stop listening to England, just do what you KNOW is right!
when that attorney saves the sewer system money by avoiding lawsuits or getting grants, your sewer rates will be lower than they'd be otherwise.
This is the worse council we've ever had
Price and Coffey are pathetic, aren't they.
Stop rationalizing, stop listening to England, just do what you KNOW is right!
It's called "Truthiness."
Do you know what Truthiness is?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truthiness
How does a group of elected officials justify and rationalize their corruption
"Corruption" means something illegal.
It's not illegal to raise a sewer rate.
What evidence do you have that something illegal is going on?
Is there anyone giving legal advice to the Mayor? Other than Gibson and his decoder ring law degree.
Shane would have to be a "number genius" to count up all those ceral box tops!
lmao
Before the election I heard from a number of people that England was much more shady than he appeared. Its sad to see they were right. Not surprising, but sad. There are true issues of poor judgement and leadership, or lack there of, being exercised by the Mayor's office.
So is it time we pressure the next round of candidates for a city court? Could drastically increase the collection of fines? (Also could help to boost the amount of $ captured from infractions and traffic code violations)
For the records though, I do not believe there are "certain people" who are getting kick backs from the administration. But that is not something I wish to get into.
But I am trying to look at this from a "non-profit" broke-ass point of view.
*How many printers are hooked up to computers in city hall? And are they ink jet or laser jet? (A lot of printing can add up VERY fast).
*Do we have a preferred contract with anyone for office supplies (I.E. staples advantage plan, most items cost 30% less than retail, some 50%)
* Are services for communications audited every year, and competitive bids solicited for I.T., Internet, Phone systems, and cell phones? (and if the city does not have an "unlimited call plan" are the bills audited and personal calls reimbursed by the employee?)
Change may well start with $change$, and these are things we should be asking our officials as well as the "big" questions. A hundred small change items every work day begins to add up to some serious coin across the course of a fiscal year.
(PS with the possibility of up to 6" of rain this week end, friday would be a good day to check the storm drains by your house for blockage in the gutters!)
Shady is putting it mildly anonymous 8:13.
OMG it is going to take me a day to respond to 5:46, because right now all I can think of is alot of 4 letter words...and one 5 letter word - Loser
Just for starters
1. ink jet printers
2. 2 or more printers in each office
3. Full time IT tech
4. see 2008 and 2009 audit for cell phones (seperate plans.)
5. Two company's come around and take office supply orders every couple weeks.
6. Our office orders from Quill
7. Police/Fire, some department heads and elected officials do not pay for their personal calls.
You are right several thousands of dollars could be trimmed. The waste is pathic.
8:25 we are all losers except for the ones mentioned by 5:45
The county is run completely different than the city. If they allow your office say a budget of $100,000 you better not spend $1.00 over. They go behind each office and check and have been know to ask office holders and county employees to cut the county a personal check, unlike the city. If you need additional funds (your office) they require the elected official to stand before the council and explain why they need it. In most cases they say "NO!"
8:45 You got that right. No wonder our city is broke.
CD 8:18 PM-"(PS with the possibility of up to 6" of rain this week end, friday would be a good day to check the storm drains by your house for blockage in the gutters!)"
CD will now take charge of drainage police with the 'storm troopers'! Maybe they can also help the Potty Police. Morning of Derby Day, May 3, 2008 - we remember it well. SSOs all over New Albany with 2.8 inches of rain. Going to have a repeat? Remember the day and time when you see a problem and call it into the city. What do you mean no one is on watch on Derby Day?!
Why do we need a city court? Good Grief, Christopher.
Might I add (county) they have a much better council also.
8:40 if only the city was ran like the county. hey, here is a novel idea ...Merger! that would be a great way to consolidate, cut cost and be much more efficient. this would benefit all those living in both the city and the county.
Doug talked merger years ago. Can you image what the people in the county said!
I could never wish the City's debt on the County. Ever and I guarantee you they do not want it. The County is very much aware of the debt situation in New Albany.
An Open letter to Mayor England,
The economy is in the tank. Many who are working, are doing so part time, working at multiple jobs, and have managed to keep jobs by taking sizeable pension and salary cuts. How about you do the same? In short, our families have less money. We have already cut our family budgets, reduced vacations, drive older cars and cut back on eating out. We've dialed back our thermostats and say NO more often than YES to our children. With that as a backdrop, the mayor proposes to spend even more, raise more fees and protect the city's current spending with no sacrifice, no cutbacks, no reduction in services and chooses once again to add to his out of control spending.
This is a cowardly, weak and predictable budget rooted in a lifeyime on the public teat and a disconnect from real people.
More fees as I predicted, around our necks like a yoke so you can stuff more fees down our throats til we gag and add additional financial stress to our families is not the hallmark of a real leader. It's the hallmark of somebody unwilling to make painful and difficult decisions at City Hall in the same manner we do. It's a coward's way out by forcing decisions on us, decisions to cut our family budgets even more because the mayor won't cut his.
Does it get any more pitiful than that?
A citizen of New Albany, taxpayer, ratepayer and a democrat voter,
J. Proctor
WOW! Truer words were never said better.
8:58 Hell NO!
lmao
No mention of his free sidewalk, but nice words to say about doing business here.
Wickliffe: "I must give this town an A plus rating in the way it has treated my company and I."
Truer words never spoke 9:18. Voter Revolution Time LOL
Why did the tribune article leave out the shane gibson's salary of 147k?
15 days and stil no arrest
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5 years and no still professor.
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Is there anyone giving legal advice to the Mayor? Other than Gibson and his decoder ring law degree.
Shane's isn't a REAL law degree like Denhart's, Coffey's and Price's. I heard they all earned top marks on the bar exam. Price even used to be a prosecutor.
shirley you will lose next year for sure, you back everything England wants, taxpayers will remember your tax and spend mentality next year, do yourself a favor and dont file for council unless you like being humiliated
Actually, the reason I find this blog so entertaining is that as Shirley continues to grope and grow, her "followers" continue to regress and lessen in significance.
is shane salary or is $150,000 his retainer for an outside attorney?
if it's his retainer, then he's paying all his own self employment taxes, withholdings, insurance, retirement, etc. take that out and he makes less than many fire fighters and a lot less than most experienced attorneys.
10:58 what little do you know!
Didn't take long for a good thread to go to hell in a handbasket. Congratulations.
shane's not a city employee. that's why he's not on the list.
Shane won't win anyway. No chance at all no matter how much money they supply him with.
six days and still no pics of six FOS staff who ran the mini.
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A new City Court is exactly the reason the full time Council attorney was hired. That's been an England plan for a long time. Shame poeople don't keep on politicians' agendas from 1 period to the next.
City court is an agenda that I hope gets forwarded to a plan, then to reality. It would go a long way to wrangling in some of the money that is owed to the city for all manners of infractions.
How do you plan to pay for this?
another part time attorney, one whose sole job is to enforce liens against code violators, could pay for itself with the collected fines. lord knows there's plenty of properties that can be cited. it would be a money maker for the city.
"another part time attorney, one whose sole job is to enforce liens against code violators, could pay for itself with the collected fines."
we have a full time attorney who is suppose to be doing this already. if another attorney is going to be hired then the amount paid to that attorney should be reduced from the amount paid to the current attorney.
I am not attacking anyone (mayor, council and some posters here)though some may prefer to frame it that way. What I am saying to all of you, constructively, in good faith, with open inclusive communication among each other than you should just shut up. And learn to do so quickly -- please get out of the way.
I have much greater confidence in what some of you say than I do in others here.
Do not let yourselves be distracted and manipulated, or pited one against another.
(Reasonable discussion is way better than the bullying on here.) If you succumb to this temptation, only private agendas will be served.
I hope the Mayor rather than stomp, yell, and demand your way or the highway. Otherwise, how can you lead a community?
The Mayor made it clear he was absolutely determined to get his way, no matter what anyone else said or thought. This is a very bad trait in an elected official, even being Mayor.
Dehumanizing name-calling and threats should not be tolorated anywhere, but especially not in a elected official - whether referring to taxpayers, ratepayers, citizens groups or Neighborhood Associations or just John Q Public.
This has to stop,now.
The public interest will not tolorate your actions, no longer.
Personally, I feel disappointed. I do not know if your promise of change or trust can be restored. If you do not try, you will confirm that sad sense of betrayal.
But many people, nit just us, are watching closely, wether we regularly attend these meeting or not.
The public is watching you all, (mayor, council, businesses and department heads) hoping for something more.
Just like the rest of us.
Stay focus, keep fighting the good fight and never back down.
4:02, what action by the mayor are you referring to?
4:02: Unfortunately that has become the acceptable norm, not only here, but everywhere in country by not only the officials, but pretty much every political action group in the country
4:02--Mayor England acted like that during his first term, however mostly away from the public. The stories some people can tell. Remember the problem with his leg? The only way he will 'change' is to take it behind closed doors. Oh, to be a fly on the wall.
no evidence, no proof.
but plenty o' character assassination.
I'm glad to see you all are not letting your educations get in the way of your ignorance.
Which part doesn't the New Albanian understand? No one and I mean no one pulls for this City to fail. This City has already failed. A failure to taxpayers and its citizenry. We didn't create this mess his buddys in City Hall did. He will never be able to see this issue and I for one don't understand why.
I guess he has either his blinkers on or he doesn't care or he's full of it. None of it matters to me but I will argue the point with him about this City's failures. And, they weren't created by taxpayers.
I am not trying to start trouble, I swear it, but I have a serious question; Why does it always seem to come back on Baylor and Company when the conversation comes around to how screwed up things are in this city, and the tag line of "his buddies downtown" when over 50% of the voting public elected the Mayor in 2007?
taxpayers elected the administration, so yeah, in a way taxpayers created the mess. Now how about taking on the fact that only 29% of registered voters actually voted in the 2007 elections? that ='s 7,883 of 26,789 voted (29%).
So where does the blame lie in the end? the people in office or the 71% of registered voters who just couldn't bother with such a trivial matter as casting a ballot that would effect every day of our lives for at least 4 years?
gibson IS a city employee. 47k comes from the general fund. the other 100k comes from the sewer utility. He was not listed because he did not become full time until the spring of 2009---He is, by far the highest paid city employee
Simply because his fees are paid out of City budgets doesn't make him an employee of the City. How else *would* he be paid? What other funds do government entities have to pay from other than their, um... budgets? He is an attorney with a legal practice. He is an employee of that practice.
50% of them don't drink and back England up no matter what he does/doesn't do. That's why.
16 days and still no arrest
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"gibson IS a city employee. 47k comes from the general fund. the other 100k comes from the sewer utility."
since fifer was hired as sewer attorney then was $100,000 reduced from gibson salary since fifer is now doing that part of his job or is he still being paid by sewer so he can collect more money from the new bond debt that the council voted for.
Nope! Read both contracts. You'll be amazed what these attorney's make. Gibson doesn't have a snow balls chance in hell to beat Clere. Many democrats like him and that speaks volumes. I'm not paying him $150,000 to run for State Rep. Let him do it on his time not the citizens time, between 8-4:00 pm.
how much in total does the city pay for attorney fees each year. anyone ever checked into that?
contract city attorneys have to pay their own malpractice insurance, taxes, health insurance, buy their own law books, many of their own office supplies. keep that in mind.
I thought the city bought their own law books. Haven't we seen Carl Malysz reading them?
price takes money from slumlord buddies to fight code enforcement.
Thanks to the owner of this blog for the opportunity to vent.
I read in the Tribune the sewer board felt it was necessary to borrow another 7.4 million at a cost of 2.6 million dollars to the rate payers. This drove the overall debt to over $75 million dollars.
What are they doing down there with all of our money? I am so ashamed of this city and its corrupt officials. First they raise my sewer rate 45% so they have another $5 million a year to waste, and then they borrow $7 million on top of this atrocity.
Prime example of heavy handed government.
Vote them all out.
I don't think we need another full time attorney. What's he going to do, carry Gibson's water and shine the mayor's shoes?
Have they no shame? This is a political post paid for by the tax payers of NA.
This administration is very shady, just like they were the last time they we in office.
I live in an apartment in NA. I just got a notice from the owner, my rent is going up $30.00 a month because of the increase in sewer rates.
I hope they are happy down town with all of my money. I am voting everyone of those idiots out of office. Then I am moving to Louisville.
thank you to anonymous for posting 50 times, posing as 50 different people.
fake professor.
fake marathoners.
fake evidence.
fake law degrees.
fake accounting degrees.
fake anonymous posts.
do the math, the increase isn't $30/month. maybe your landlord just wanted to raise your rent, if you really rent downtown.
ENGLAND SHOULD RESIGN.
Which part doesn't the New Albanian understand? No one and I mean no one pulls for this City to fail. This City has already failed.
I understand it quite well, thank you. It's just that I disagree that the city has "already failed."
The city as a whole, including all of its residents, certainly has failed in selected ways. As an example, code enforcement.
It has been almost completely ignored for decades, but this cannot be laid at any one entity's doorstep. It has been a fully cooperative effort between elements of government and elements of the citizenry at large, which by necessity, means that taxpayers and politicians alike are among the culpable.
You want a genuinely failed state? Try Somalia. That's what we mean by failure. By almost any broad and embracing, objective and rational (as opposed to mad as hell) standard, New Albany has not failed -- only in the narrow standard that you and many others, mostly anonymous, care to apply here.
It'd be far better if all of us could convene in one place and discuss such matters, but you'll never permit that, will you? Consensus wouldn't sanction the blame game, would it?
Maybe RemCha can pull it off.
There are some other things out there we need to get to the bottom of - contracts, bids and expenditures.
So let's get rid of England and get someone who wants yo be 100% open it appears he is NOT the man and it appears the same woth those five council members needs to be shown the door too.
England had better wise up, this is not republicans mad at them, this is Democrats.
Wait until Tuesday when they count Gibson's under votes. You do know what under votes are, The New Albanian?
It's about time you learned that there is no honor among thieves. Rip off citizens for say, what...10 years now, sweatheart, no bid deals,just slide some skin England's way; than act outraged when the thieves you hired to rip off the city steal from you too. Stupid, stupid and stupid.
Look, the way it works. Fifer was the sewer attorney and made about 250k between o3-o7--wisman has the invoices---plus his sewer retainer. Then Buchanon took over---now fifer is back for the bucks
GIBSON was never paid to be the sewer lawyer---they just took sewer funds to supplement his salary, DUH! It has nothing to do with sewer work. They do it all the time. The guy who used to follow the street sweeper around (a former cop) was paid out of sewer funds.
The mayor and gibson also claim that they are giving flood victims 60% of their claims. This is money that gahan helped appropriate earlier in the year. SOme are getting 10% or less and the mayor is diverting the money. He is a real piece of work. BTW the KofC got over 60k from the city for the flooding---why? Because they are in the loop. DOn't believe it? Go ask.
ALl of the experienced councilmen say there is not enough for the lawyer to do. The new ones say yes. How is he going to find enough council work to fill his week.-----grant writing is not council work. It is executive work. It is almost like these people did not go to high school.
If England can't do simple math, it's no wonder City of New Albany has been decimated on his watch. Council president, at best you are not part of the solution, at worst 'shame on you.' We need to know how they're spending our money and we need to have a scouring of the handouts to England's buddies. It's way past time. Anyone who wants to justify demanding more fees needs to tell us what they're doing with what they've already got.
Pick me! I know!
You do know what under votes are, The New Albanian?
Is it when Democrats who are really Republicans try to keep us in the Dark Ages by voting their prejudice rather than their self-interest?
You know: A working man who votes GOP is like a chicken who votes for Col. Sanders?
Do I get a prize?
will all the anonymous lawyers here raise their hands.
it's good to know that all the people complaining know sooo much about practicing law, just as they're experts on everything else.
ATTENTION FELLOW SLUMLORDS!
If we can't repeal the codes, let's just get rid of the lawyers so no one's left to enforce the codes!
BRILLIANT PLAN!
Price and Coffey don't want more lawyers since their businesses are among the biggest violators of local ordinances.
Like anyone is enforcing anything downtown right now. Gibson is having to answer questions as to why CCE isn't being taken care of when they are still in violation of zoning. Why Gibson?
if you lie about having six staff members run a marathon, you will lie about having evidence of illegal activity.
Roger how many fingers do you see?
No, tell me how man fingers am I holding up?
See, it's three not four. So go back and drink another brew.
Quick question. What is the city going to do when home values decrease so much that the tax base is significally lower because of it.
See, it's three not four.
Ahh, so there are fewer anonymous troglydytes posting here than I imagined. I could have sworn it was 4.
Man, am I happy to have Baltic Porter on tap in my garage.
That's a great question. What will the city do?
Quick question. What is the city going to do when home values decrease so much that the tax base is significally lower because of it.
more code enforcement will only help raise property values.
...and the mayor is diverting the money.
evidence?
proof?
or just more slander?
hi!
my name is bob.
i'm new to this blog.
i heard it was an excellent place to spread false rumors and lies.
i'm a malicious person and love to cause trouble.
how do i start?
regards,
bob
The New Albanianer:
You say Three anonymous post here. Is that counting you and The New Albanianister or not.....
Bahahah
That comes perilously close to comprehensible.
But not.
i wish price would stop trying to run my city into the ground.
it's like trying to save money by not changing the oil in your car. eventually everything just falls apart. works for cities too, but i doubt price gives _____.
The City is in such a hole financially and you are upset because Price has voted no against spending any money?
How can he vote yes knowing the financial situation of the City?
Talk about being blind. But, it doesn't matter anymore because Council is aware now of the situation. What they choose to do about it will be interesting.
Not everyone can be a lap dog and not have an opinion about anything.
I'm glad Price supports me and I support Price.
As Shirley said "everyone knows how everyone feels about certain members of our community, both elected officials and others. So please drop the name calling and accusations".
Is there a riff between fire and police? Fire has had to concede certain issues while the police conceded nothing and are getting more.
Is it true why the budget hasn't been submitted to the State yet in so far as England needs the money for the parking garage first?
What is the delay on the budget?
If Bobo is going to develop the parking garage, etc., why did England need the money to come up with a design? This deal seems backwards to me.
I doubt if anyone has any answers though.
17 days and still no arrest
tick
tock
tick
tock
FOS congratulates its five staff members who were jockeys in the 136th running of the Kentucky Derby! We are so proud of our staff!
The City is in such a hole financially and you are upset because Price has voted no against spending any money?
How can he vote yes knowing the financial situation of the City?
I'm still waiting for this document that shows there's a hole. You know, the document that says everything yet has no footnotes to explain anything.
17 days and still no arrest
tick
tock
tick
tock
Is your point that we need to hire more detectives?
If Bobo is going to develop the parking garage, etc., why did England need the money to come up with a design? This deal seems backwards to me.
Go back and read the Tribune articles and you'll find the factual error in your statement.
Is it true why the budget hasn't been submitted to the State yet in so far as England needs the money for the parking garage first?
No.
I respectfully ask that everyone stay of topic this time. Everyone knows how everyone feels about certain members of our community, both elected officials and others. So please drop the name calling and accusations.
thanks
"I'm still waiting for this document that shows there's a hole. You know, the document that says everything yet has no footnotes to explain anything."
yea just like we are still waiting for you to get a life M.C. you know the one where you actually become a productive member of society and have better things to do than get your panties wet over FOS everyday.
yea just like we are still waiting for you to get a life M.C.
Why do you stubbornly insist that Mark Cassidy and Roger Baylor are the only two thinking people in New Albany?
Look at the election results. Price won last time around with a whopping 37% of the vote. He's not a superstar in his district.
Coffey won with about 52% of the vote. No one likes him. He's very vulnerable.
To know how the city really feels, look at who one AT LARGE? Not Valla Ann. The people who won are the people who vote most often for responsible policies.
New Albany is not as short sighted as FOS/CFA/Price likes to think it is.
Why do you stubbornly insist that Mark Cassidy and Roger Baylor are the only two thinking people in New Albany?
Aw shucks ... Ah'd juss liike ta thank thuh 'cademee and all.
Actually, Mark and I brought our thinking caps here to NA because undervalued stocks are bound to go up. Right?
I respectfully ask that Mark, Randy, Roger, Ernest and annonymous dude who can't get anyone to kiss his but and email him the city financials, stay of topic this time. Everyone knows how you guys feel about FOS, Price, and Coffey. So please drop the name calling and accusations and try to at least act like the old grown men that you are.
thanks
I only post when registered under my real identity. Thank you.
jeffersonville, which has 10,000 fewer people than new albany has, just separated their economic development posts into two positions. ever wonder why all the jobs are going to jeff? it's not because of low sewer rates (sewer rates there are much higher). it's because jeff actually pays staff members to go out and lure businesses to jeff. if you tried to get that in NA, price, coffey and denhart would call you commie. i guess they don't care about jobs for working people in new albany.
The budget has not been submitted. It is being held up because they know the state will slash it before it comes back and there would be less chance the five nimrods on the council would vote to appropriate funds
five nimrods on the council
tisk, tisk. no name calling please.
"it's because jeff actually pays staff members to go out and lure businesses to jeff."
and na pays ours big buck not to!
6:05 that three is your IQ.
6:05 that three is your IQ.
no insults. pretty please.
Is that why Redevelopment paid WICK'S $100,000 to move to New Albany.
"it's because jeff actually pays staff members to go out and lure businesses to jeff."
and na pays ours big buck not to!
we have people who dont know a thing about law trying to dictate how many lawyers we have and people who dont know anything about economic development trying to dictate how many economic development people we have.
is anyone at the city dedicated solely to attracting jobs? no!
you want carl to write all the grants, help run the city AND still have time to attract new jobs for working people.
we're understaffed when compared with jeff.
redevelopment didnt pay wicks $100k to move to na. get your facts remotely straight. even half straight will do.
i guess since wicks complimented the mayor and his staff, wicks is the new enemy of the self proclaimed "little people."
god forbid you ever have anything nice to say about the city.
FOS's motto: a friend of my enemy is my enemy?
Freedom of Speech receive $100,000.00 from the Redevelopment Commission to relocate their corporate headquarters to New Albany. I'm not complaining because that's 30 good paying jobs.
"you want carl to write all the grants, help run the city AND still have time to attract new jobs for working people."
please tell us what he does do for $84k a year...
a lot.
a lot more than just attract jobs. that's a long term project, attracting businesses.
if you're too busy putting out fires or dealing with council B.S., then you won't have time to make contact with business.
we need someone WHOSE SOLE JOB is economic development.
and let's stop pretending that $84,000 a year is a lot of money for a talented, experienced professional, whether it's carl or anyone else. good people are in high demand. if you want a bunch of uneducated idiots who cannot find employment elsewhere running the city, then you'll save money in the extremely short run.
and shane makes less than other qualified attorneys the city could hire?
http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Law_Firm_Partner/Salary
average law firm partner makes $140,000-$298,000 per year once you include bonuses, etc.
shane makes LESS THAN $140,000 because he has to pay tens of thousands a year in his own expenses.
"if you're too busy putting out fires or dealing with council B.S., then you won't have time to make contact with business."
Putting out fires or dealing with the council is what the Mayor job is and he should do that so carl can get out there and do his job.
How many white envelopes did he get? Read his contract, what a sweet heart deal.
How many white envelopes did he get? Read his contract, what a sweet heart deal.
His contract calls for whit envelopes? How unusual.
A paranoid delusion is not evidence, in case you were wondering.
How little you know Mr. Smart a**! We got all the evidence we need.
Run against Price and see who wins.
Shane is not a law firm partner. He works for the city as a local government lawyer and by the average pay scale he should only be getting paid $75,000.
Get your numbers correct..
http://www.careertoolkits.com/attorney/lawyer-salary.html
The next highest group on the legal salary earnings spectrum is comprised of lawyers who work for the federal government and its legal services. These practicing lawyers averaged over $100,000/year, while lawyers who work for either their local or state governments were found at the lower end of the spectrum. In fact, these lawyers earned significantly less per year, with an average of just over $75,000/year.
How little you know Mr. Smart a**! We got all the evidence we need.
Run against Price and see who wins.
Why don't you talk to a prosecutor then? Oh that's right, now did and were laughed at.
What does the fake evidence against England have to do with anyone running against Price?
take out his expenses and shane makes about $75,000 per year.
by the way, your $75,000 figure is for all lawyers, which includes those just out of law school. share has 10 years experience and his the chief attorney for the city.
oh and guess what? he's not city staff, so your number count even less.
(see why footnotes are important sometimes).
your new boy representing the council will take $55,000 per year because he's relatively inexperience. a good experienced attorney would not take that little pay. after his expenses he's going to be making a lot, lot less than $55,000 per year. the city average for its attorneys is well below $75,000 year. i think your link proves that we're underpaying our attorneys.
"A paranoid delusion is not evidence"
good one!
"shane makes LESS THAN $140,000 because he has to pay tens of thousands a year in his own expenses."
the city pays for most of his expenses, health insurance, office supplies, and the salary of his secretary which the city was required to hire and pay benefits to as part of his contract.
you dont know what he pays on his own. he's paid a fair amount for services.
nope dont care what he pays. only interested in what the city pays as this is where the care should be.
nope dont care what he pays. only interested in what the city pays as this is where the care should be.
your statement makes it sound like cheapest is always best.
it does matter what his bottom line is because, whether it's shane or the next attorney, the bottom line to the attorney is going to determine who is willing to take the job. that determined how good our legal services are.
how many attorneys are in floyd co.? more than 100. how many wanted the council position? just one. what if he turns out to be a lemon. you won't know until after a couple years of bad advice when you're deep in a couple costly lawsuits that could have been prevented had you gotten better advise.
more penny wise pound foolish.
what goes for attorneys goes for city planners and economic development employees too.
get what you pay for. i'm tired of new albany getting the worst.
you get more than what you pay for when you hire true public servants who are actually in it for the citizens of the community and not in it for themselves.
thinking that just because you pay someone more you get more, is more than just penny stupid it is a ton dumb!
thinking that just because you pay someone more you get more, is more than just penny stupid it is a ton dumb!
Thank you for not understanding my point. I did not say that if you pay someone more, they do more. I said that if you pay more, you open yourself up to a larger pool of candidates. There's a good chance that one of those new candidates will do a better job.
By your logic, we should pay all city employees minimum wage. If any drunk, unemployed, unshaven bum with a criminal record is willing to do any of the city jobs for minimum wage, well let 'em have it. That is what you are saying, isn't it? That quality doesn't matter.
At least Price earned his money and didn't get paid money from his X and divorce, like you did. Even Rich (your father in-law said he would have paid more just to get you out of his daughters life.
any evidence or more slander.
plus, since your anonymous, we cannot see your criminal record.
are you a murderer? a rapist? maybe
@3:49 prove you're not a criminal.
At least Price earned his money and didn't get paid money from his X and divorce, like you did. Even Rich (your father in-law said he would have paid more just to get you out of his daughters life.
Classy. Shirley, with fans like this ...
@roger must not be too bad since your first wife is a business partner of yours to this very day.
why should we believe the stuff about england when it comes from someone who lies about roger?
3:45 I don't need you to try and explain my logic! It speaks for itself! Your interpetation is simply that, YOURS for your benefit, it's not mine! Be an Individual and Speak for yourself and quit trying to speak for me.
Be an Individual
Can it get any funnier? Be an individual, so long as you remain anonymous. Where are the characteristics that define individuals when all of them are wearing hoods?
Vern. them little people just keep getting smaller. Think they'll disappear altogether?
@4:05 i agree. it's all about you. forgive me for trying to explain something to you, master.
a name does not make individualism
now master, can you please show us where the hidden tapes are?
a name does not make individualism
nor do lies, insults or allegations.
a name does not make individualism
And at least on this blog, anonymity routinely enables lies and malice.
Smaller, and smaller ...
What a bunch of whiners.
Unlike a lot of writers, I will try to keep this one on topic with the original posting:
Everyone in this town complains about how properties are deteriorating and that we need more manpower to pick up trash. WRONG - we need an enforceable city code and ordinances which hold up in court and people will be responsible for keeping up their properties and picking up their own trash at no cost to the city - if they do not, the city will fine them and levy on that fine if it is unpaid. Having someone with a law degree helps ensure uniformity and enforceability of those ordinances/codes.
There's an awful lot of talk about the council attorney being another person working for the mayor simply because the council attorney can write grants. WRONG - The council cannot tell the city or anyone else to write grants, so how best to make sure the city pursues grants which help everyone - not just the mayor and high profile projects? Have an indpendent agent of the council to apply for those grants. Seems to me the mayor-conspiracy theorists would be lauding this move by the council to have more independence.
Someone else commented to the effect of "there are 100 lawyers in town and only one wanted this job. what if we are getting a lemon?" I am willing to bet others submitted their interest but are not being heard about due to the confidential and sensitive nature of prospective applicants who do not want their employer to know they are looking elsewhere. It is also ironic that people complain about the quality of legal services to this town but yet then do not want to pay the going rate for those services. I bet many other lawyers thought about it but ruled it out because it would not pay enough compared to their existing clients. The new attorney seems to be somewhat experienced but not so much in demand he can't afford to take the job. Mr. Lorch seems energetic and from what I gather, passed two bar exams so as far as I am concerned, he is qualified to work with this bunch. I can't imagine the $55,000 a year he is being paid will amount $35,000 a year after paying his overhead costs, taxes, and insurance. I know I would not put up with those 9 council members and all the technical questions that come with that job for $35,000 a year. If you take $35,000 a year for the 40 hours a week he is to work, that is working for $17.50 an hour! ($27.50/hour if you use $55,000) I dont know about you, but most attorneys work for far more than (mine charges $200/hour) that so we should be pleased we are getting such a favorable rate for an attorney AND a grant writer.
People talk about the City not having money for the position(s). WRONG - those same people ignore that this city will spend far more than the position(s) cost for a street sweeper, or a round of garbage can lid replacements, or many other mundane things without blinking an eye.
Seems to me the ones barking the loudest about this and the resulting conspiracy theories should take a long hard look at their logic and decide if they're really on the right side of these issues.
Baylor, of all people, has concerns about class?
This is the guy that called a women a "lying bitch" because she disagreed with his views on how city money should be allocated. For the record, the verbal assault came at a time when the women was at the podium during a city council meeting.
Baylor got away with it because he spends most of his blogging hours scratching the mayor's hind end.
Only in Nawbany.
It also came after she lied. The other half was editorial license, to be sure.
If I had the chance to do it over, I'd still say it, just not at that moment.
I'd buy a billboard instead.
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