I am still trying to get my head around the idea of the city having to foot the 12 million dollar expense for a parking garage on the riverfront.
The idea of a plaza with condos, stores, and other businesses right in the middle of our downtown is certainly exciting. It will create a lot of jobs and boost our local economy, no argument on that. It will also be a huge money maker for Jack Bobo and other realtors and developers.
We all know there will be large tax incentives for everyone involved also.
So would someone please explain to me why Mr. Bobo insists that he cannot make all of this come true without the help of the city (read New Albany taxpayers)? Yes, the city will receive tax dollars over a 20 year period but Mr. Bobo and friends will make huge profits all along. He said that he would not ask the city to contribute more than it would gain. Would he make an investment in someone said to him, "Jack, I'm not asking you do contribute more than you would gain". He would probably tell them thanks but no thanks, since the plan would call for him to break even. He did not get where he is by only breaking even.
I don't claim to be an accountant or financial wizard but I just don't see why Mr. Bobo and friends can't build this building, complete with garage, without asking for the help from the city.
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Well, now that you mention it, the whole thing smells pretty fishy to me. What kind of guy WOULD agree to such an arrangement?
I smell a rat.
Or some kind of kickback.
once baylor and england give you youre talking points and orders you will support it like always , why because they tell you what to think
I seriously doubt Baylor gives Shirley any talking points. And I don't think England TELLS Baylor any talking points. While England uses Baylor, Baylor doesn't have a clue it's happening. Shirley has a mind of her own and enough intelligence to see what's going on so long as she looks without preconception. The players of all these games like to muddy the waters and make it difficult to see who's doing what, but I truly believe that Shirley is astute enough to figure it out.
Okay, Mrs. Baird, here are your talking points:
supportheprojectsupportheprojectsupporttheproject
Okay, I've done my bit.
@ 8:21 thank you
No Mr. Baylor, nor Mayor England give me any talking points.
I don't like it so obviously there must be kickbacks and conspiracy involved.
What other proof do you need? I don't like it! Duh!
-Professor Erik
Roger says that "Ms. Baird still doesn't grasp public-private partnerships."
It's interesting, but people don't seem to get it. Especially when they apply it to something like SCHOOLS! We definitely need better schools, and we need the private as well as the public ones. Yet Roger rails on and on against private schools. So do his friends. Very odd.
Back to the Waterfront Project, it's perfectly OK to question the project. We've certainly got enough sneaky stuff going on in New Albany that it's ALWAYS a good idea to question.
I think this project will benefit the city, and, whatever "kickbacks" there may be are right there in front of our faces in the form of paid fees and percentages paid for contract work. THAT'S where I'd be looking at this mess. Not at the project itself.
Ms. Baird hasn't said anything untoward in wanting to get her mind around the project and to understand it.
What piques my interest is the $12 million in bonds to be issued for this project. Anyone know who benefits any time there's a bond issue? Shane Gibson. He gets, I've heard, either one or two percent. Even 1% of $12 million is a hefty sum. What on earth would Gibson do with $120,000 to add to his already over-inflated income? That's the stuff that seems shady to me. It's very odd, especially when you consider that Gibson is, well, to be honest, a LAME lawyer. Not at all worth $150,000/yr PLUS a bonus of $120,000.
And if he's not pocketing all that cash, then who is?
Dan Chandler needs to be thrown off the Redevelopment Commission head first. He acts like he is an authority on development, but he has no experience in construction or investing. The guy is a lackey of Doug England and is even more corrupt.
I am drafting e-mails to all nine city council members encouraging each and every one of them to vote no. If this is such a good deal, ask Know-it-all Dan Chandler why the city gets to hold the bag on the garage portion of the project and not the real money making part of the project. How about BOBO buying the parking the garage, and the city investing in the retail, condo portion? DA! Chandler is an idiot. And this is just one reason for my objection. Wait until this heats up during the election cycle and I will reveal the real downside of this pathetic ruse.
Thank you Ms. Shirley for this opportunity to be heard and to help stop the corruption in my hometown.
Gibson doesn't get an extra penny from bonds. Want to make up more "facts"?
Dan Chandler isn't the problem and, yes, Gibson gets money from bonds.
I don't know if Shane Gibson gets commission on bonds and I must disagree with your assessment of Dan Chandler.
Although I have only met him a couple of times he seems pretty open and intelligent.
I don't think all of these people are getting kickbacks but I do think the developers will make a killing.
As I said, Dan Chandler isn't a problem. He does a fine job. Dan is likely to keep the shenanigans in line. I know him personally and closely, and I can vouch for his integrity.
Shane Gibson is less than outstanding as far as performance, but makes a lot of money. Just sayin'.
8:49, Mrs. Shirley, Several of you have not/nor never read his contract. I suggest each and everyone of you read it.
Btw, I also think you need to read Lorch's contract too.
I guess while you are at it: check out Dan Chandlers contract also.
Who ever made the statement Gibson gets 2 % is totally correct.
How come no one here has asked Dan Chandler how he got the job on Redevelopment and as Attorney for the Rehab project SEJ?
Surely some of you have to know the truth other than a just a few of us.
Btw, is he a democrat or a republican now?
Redevelopment Commission members are not paid. I'm not clear on how I'm personally benefitting from sitting through meetings discussing paving projects, greenways and CDBG grants.
As for my being a Dem. or a Rep., I'm not running for office in 2011 or any time after. Again, I'm not clear on the point. One moment I’m England’s lackey and the next I’m a Republican. Politics must be strange in this town. Maybe that’s why I have little interest in politics.
If you think I'm pathetic, fine. I'm hardly perfect, I’ll be the first to admit. I did not volunteer to serve on Redevelopment because I’m personally perfect. I volunteered because I am interested in what other cities have done to attract jobs and investment and I’d like to see New Albany be a similar success. I have practiced commercial real estate law and I did coauthor the city's New Markets Tax Credit application in 2009. Any expertise I have I'm glad to share. Since I’m not an expert in most areas, I try to seek out experts when I have questions. If anything I wrote about Mr. Bobo's project is factually incorrect, please let me know.
Dan,
Thank you for responding. Maybe your clarification will keep the naysayers quiet for a while.
Well, that's interesting, Dan, since Doug England had Stan Faith call you so you could bully MRS. Clere and make her move Ed's sign out of your yard. Her voice was trembling when she called me to see if I'd come get it, which I couldn't. But I questioned her hard until she told me Faith had called you to have it removed. She wouldn't say anything else, but, come ON, Dan! Who's yanking your chains!?!
Now my voice is trembling (with laughter) as I notice how fast it's gone from being about Dan's redevelopment proceeds to crying over a political yard sign -- signage always having been the substitute for genuine content hereabouts.
Does anyone else care to discuss Mr. Bobo's proposal?
Dan, how come the others got paid and you don't?
Since you are so willing to help the city could you answer me this and other questions: Since greenway has a % of matching funds (as in the past) how come the $419,000 was not in the budget?
Could you tell us what you actually do on redevelopment?
Whose interest are you looking out for?
The reason I ask.
As we all know they do contracts with various companys. At several meetings I have sat in they continue to come before redevelopment with change orders.
My understanding of the law is that once you have a contract for x amount of dollars that is what it is, no more no less. So how can this board you sit on continue to sit their meeting after meeting approving this?
Whose interest are you looking out for?
Since you are the redevelopment attorney why do you allow this to happen?
Why are you not questioning this/them?
See Mr. Chandler, we know about the safe in that office and we also know they are playing a dangerous game with HUD and falsifying documents and information.
HUD is currently meeting with former employees of redevelopment.
Do you not know enough real estate law that you can get a cpa or an appraiser to write anything you want. It happens everyday.
You also say you want nothing to do with running as a candidate which was a lie, as you were going to run against Steve Price and have been asking for donations of several of my friends before you got on Redevelopment and the SEJ Project.
Please tell us how you got that job, but this time tell the truth.
I assure you we know way more about you, than you do about me/others on here.
Roger do you remember how to get back over on your own blog?
Wanna know what bullying is? Here's a pretty good description of it. 'Nuff said.
Bullying is a form of abuse. It involves repeated acts over time attempting to create or enforce one person's (or group's) power over another person (or group) , thus an "imbalance of power".[2] The "imbalance of power" may be social power and/or physical power. The victim of bullying is sometimes referred to as a target. Bullying types of behavior are often rooted in a would-be bully's inability to empathize with those whom he or she would target.
Bullying consists of three basic types of abuse – emotional, verbal and physical. It typically involves subtle methods of coercion such as psychological manipulation. Bullying can be defined in many different ways. Although the UK currently has no legal definition of bullying,[3] some US states have laws against it.[4]
Bullying ranges from simple one on one bullying to more complex bullying in which the bully may have one or more 'lieutenants' who may seem to be willing to assist the primary bully in his bullying activities. Bullying in school and the workplace is also referred to as peer abuse.[5] Robert W. Fuller has analyzed bullying in the context of rankism.
Bullying can occur in any context in which human beings interact with each other. This includes school, church, family, the workplace, home and neighborhoods. It is even a common push factor in migration. Bullying can exist between social groups, social classes and even between countries (see Jingoism). In fact on an international scale, perceived or real imbalances of power between nations, in both economic systems and in treaty systems, are often cited as some of the primary causes of both World War I and World War II. [6] [7] Put simply, historically and from this perspective, certain international 'bullying' between nations is seen as having resulted in at least two very major and costly international wars.
Why would Dan call Mrs. Clere instead of Mr. Clere? Hmmm.
P.S. No surprise about Stan Faith. Did you see his fierce expression at Shane Gibson's big press conference extravaganza?
how about we save the city $12,000,000 dollars and tell bozo he can build his plaza on top of the parking garage we already have.
@4:19 I let your posting stand but please be careful about statements that you may not be able to prove.
This discussion has been all over the place! Can't even keep up.
Shirley, great blog.
Kickbacks, well, yes. They're good at hiding, tho'.
Yes, I've seen Gibson's contract. He gets money on every bond. A lot of money.
Chandler is good. He was right to defend himself. If he called Mrs. C, that was a kind of low thing to do. Does he support Clere? Then he should stick to it no matter who tells him what.
Faith telling him? Don't doubt that a bit. This is how the inner circle has ALWAYS worked. I could tell you stories, but they don't mater since I'm no longer in the inner circle.
4:19, I agree with Shirley. Be careful about writing things difficult to prove.
Shirley, once again, you've administered an fascinating discussion. Thanks!
I have some questions, Mr. Chandler. If you are able to answer them, I would appreciate it.
How did England arrange the financing for this project? Is he (England) a partner with Bobo?
Could this project have been precipitated by a plan by England to have the boat moved to New Albany? Are you aware of any plans in the works for this?
What authorization does Bobo have for the approval of a 600-ft cut when the Corp of Engineers say there are no gates in the United States wide enough to accommodate this?
Will Bobo pay for new sewer lines, hook ups and clean up? And what about sewer credits--where would we get this?
These are just a few questions that have gone through my mind. Thank you in advance, Mr. Chandler, for taking time to consider and answer them.
So much misinformation I don't know where to begin.
First, I am not nor have I ever been the Redevelopment Commission's attorney. Jerry Ulrich is NARC's attorney. The attorney position is paid. The five commission members are not paid. I am a volunteer.
Wrong button. I wrote the 10:13 comment.
So, Mr. Chandler are you not the Attorney for the SEJ Project, New Directions?
This is a huge opportunity for a community of our size, especially considering the current economy.
"REMEMBER THE HORRIBLE IDEA THAT ONCE WAS THE YMCA"! Quit opposing everything, occasionally change is GOOD!
Getting facts straight is the most important thing we can do right now. Bobo's project has the potential to be an even bigger deal (good or bad) for this city than the YMCA. No decision should be made on unreliable information.
Most New Albany citizens are unfamiliar with Mr. Bobo's proposal. While the plans have not been finalized, Mr. Bobo has an outline of a plan. We still need to get more information and plans still need to be finalized, but I think it's good that people begin reading about the plan outline now so they can know what might be proposed in the next few months.
I have not made up my mind about the project. First, we don't know what the CPA firm will say about the TIF bond. Personally, at first glance, the $6 million for the cut in the levee concerns me more than the $12 million TIF for the garage. If the numbers work out, the garage will pay for itself through TIF. Funding sources for the levee cut have not been identified yet. Now that does not mean the city will be asked to pay for the levee cut, in whole or in part. Mr. Bobo still is looking at non-city options to cover at least part of the $6 million cut. Six million is a big chunk of change and it will be interesting to see how this element of the proposal evolves. However, it's premature to criticize the levee cut before we have any idea what commitment that will take from the city.
Getting facts straight is the most important thing to do right now. Someone is on here is spreading misinformation, both about me and about Mr. Bobo’s project.
As for me:
-I'm not running for office.
-I'm not the redevelopment commission attorney.
-I have asked not one person for a donation. It would be illegal for me to accept a donation since I have not registered as a candidate. If someone says I solicited or accepted a donation, they are not being truthful. In fact, they’d be accusing me of a crime. If I asked for a donation, they should take it up with the Indiana Secretary of State, Elections Division.
-Neither Stan Faith nor Doug England threatened me to remove a sign from my yard. I have been friends with the Clere family for years and remain so to this day. I was Ed's first major campaign contributor and I even spent an afternoon atop the Clere's house helping them put on a new roof last summer. Saturday I discussed the anonymous comments above with Ms. Clere; her advice was to ignore them. Thus, unless someone can tell me how any of this relates to my official business on NARC, I will discuss them no further.
Information is just a reliable as its source. Anonymous comments and blogs have proved to be wrong much of the time. When making up your mind about the merits of Mr. Bobo’s proposal, feel free to ask me tough questions. Do independent research. Look at what’s worked and what hasn’t worked in other cities. Just don’t blindly accept everything you read from some anonymous blogger.
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